Re: [Classicrendezvous] Laing stays are an Affectation?

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:41:27 +0100
Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Laing stays are an Affectation?
From: "Hilary Stone" <>
To: "Richard M. Sachs" <>,

Hellenic seatstays take a little while longer to build but do have advantages for some riders. And I would echo a lot of what Dale says but would add a few extra advantages for Hellenic stays (Equilateral triangle). If you like using a saddle bag there's quite a bit more space to tuck it especially on a small frame. The seat tube is stiffened by virtue of its effective length being shorter and hence the bottom bracket sidewaus stiffness. And finally it makes for more space around the seat binder bolt and decreases the heat input into the seat lug and the thin unbutted section of the seat tube. This helps to improve seatpin fit and makes less reaming necessary. Hilary Stone

> BTW, not only did Fred Hellens' overlapping stays inspire Hetchins, Thanet
> and GT and others, but Colnago made that early 1980s model called the
> Equilateral. I like that Equilateral name ...How about using that?
> Actually you are technically correct in your points but I think the
> description "elaboration" is better than "affectation.". Given that
> description, it makes the feature ("Hellenic" stays?) a more appropriate
> aspect of a bike like this.
> No question that the span of seat stay tubing that runs from the seat tube
> contact point to the top tube juncture does relatively little in a structural
> sense.. It just mildly anchors the points of triangulation.
> BUT that Equilateral stay arrangement, by lowering the angle of the seat
> stays, actually does have a few arguing points thus far left out... ;
> - it allows more vertical compliance and therefore a more shock absorbing
> ride than similar stays in a more vertical arrangement.
> - The overlapping of the stays at seat tube and top tube limit/stiffen the
> side to side compliance (albeit to a small degree) making the bike frame
> climb and sprint with less side to side movement.
> I personally have built using this "Hellenic"pattern on a few really big
> frames with shallow seat angles or frames for heavy riders on the theory that
> they would best benefit from these subtle attributes.


> Dale Brown