Re: [Classicrendezvous] Herse, Singer and touring

Example: Framebuilders:Chris Pauley

From: "Donald Dundee" <>
Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Herse, Singer and touring
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:39:10 EST

The 1948 Singer Cyclotouriste as well as 1949 RH Racer that I brought to Lars a couple of year ago are both built with Vitus tubsets. I understand that this was teh favorite material of the early post-war Singers, Routens' and RH's, although A.S. did use Reynolds more prominently later in his career. My 1950 RH Federale is also Vitus Tubing - butt welded and a real tank at 21 lbs.

Ken Denny Boston

>From: "Douglas R. Brooks" <>
>To: (Classic Rendevous)
>Subject: Re: [Classicrendezvous] Herse, Singer and touring
>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 05:52:16 -0500 (EST)
>The Singers that I have seen, including my own,
>usually have a Reynolds 531 sticker
>on them, as does my Herse Gentleman. (On my Singer, you can
>see the 531 sticker on the seat tube, near the top, slightly hidden
>behind the pump.) The way this tubing has been
>drawn is anyone's guess (though Grant Handley might know since
>he worked so long in the Singer shop). The frames unbuilt are
>stout and not light---my Federale just frame and fork came in
>just under 6lbs, not unlike a modern Merckx MXL (like the
>one that Lance rode for Motorola). Herse was quite the engineer
>and likely took sizing into account as he chose tubes. The Singer
>shop seems to have preferred Reynolds 531 in nearly every
>application. The forks on the French tourers are
>stouter near the top given the use of the centerpull pivots and
>the way these create a rising pressure on the crown---something
>that Csuka told me in our discussion of the forks last spring when
>I asked about the use of centerpulls for fender clearance.
>This is all I know about them for a fact, perhaps Gilbert Anderson
>knows more? He knows quite a bit!
>Douglas Brooks
>Canandaigua, NY
>If you are interested in seeing the Singer and that 531 tubing
>sticker, look here:
>or type into guest mode at
> > >
> > > I was thinking about Touring bikes and does anyone know what tubing
>was used
> > > in Singer and Herse's? Was it straight guage or butted? What guages,
> > > probably custom per size and use but most likely heavier than most
> > > bikes. Was the top tube beefy to handle the large rack loads reacted
>in the
> > > Handlebars when climbing out of the saddle which is not a usual load
> > > for a lightly loaded racing bike frame?