Re: [CR]Re: [CR] Campag. Brake Cables

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli)

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:28:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Tom Dalton" <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: [CR] Campag. Brake Cables
To: Marc Boral <mbikealive@earthlink.net>
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


No, that one didn't. Man I wish that Campy had named them Syncro 1 through Syncro 5, since that is the number of models I can recall having seen.

Syncro 1: I first saw a photo of this one in the March 1987 Winning, and I saw an actual example months later. That's the two lever one which was supposed to work with NR, SR, Victory, and Triomphe. It was supposed to work with all sorts of chains and freewheels. In my limited experience it worked equally well with everything, which is to say poorly.

Syncro 2: The first one lever design, it was supposed to work with the origional Athena, Chorous and Croce. It took the same inserts as the S1 thus it must have had the same wrap. Looking back at the magazines, I found no ads or product reviews for this one. Like the S1, this model was not used by pro racers so there are no examples of race photos that show this model. I want to say that it came out earlier than the model below, but it could easily have been a simultaneous release. It was ultimately a very common model.

Syncro 2 for Record: The first image I could find was of this type of lever on Fignon's Raleigh in the early part of the 1990 season. I remember first seeing 8-speed cassette hubs and double pivot Campy deraileurs in July of 1990 at a race. This lever featured a much larger wrap to accomidate the requirements of the double pivot derailleurs. There was also a similar change to the retrofriction lever with the new model designated as "Dopler" (though perhaps not officially).

Syncro 2 for Athena/veloce. A cheaper version of the non-Record S2.

Syncro 2 friction-only. Introduced in 1992 when Campy switched using double pivot designs in all of their derailleurs. It had a small barrel adjuster on the shifter and had the same large wrap as the model I call "Syncro 2 for Record." This year Campy went to 8-speeds and double pivots across the board, so the one shifter worked with all groups (still 4?) and required only the one insert. This is the frist system that even came close to Shimano's Indexing performance. Then again, the hubs were so flawed that the system was still well behind. I use the 1992 Record shifter and derailleur with a 7-speed Dura Ace screw on, with decent results. The Campy 8-sped spacing was wider than the Shimano 8 speed and very close to Shimano 7 speed.

Then It all went Ergo... None speed ... ten speed... where will it end!!!!!!


--- Marc Boral wrote:


> Tom,
>
> If you are ever able to take a side by side pic. of
> the two different
> cables, please post it for the group.
>
> In approx. '91 Athena and Xenon got a cheaper
> version of Syncro II
> levers. Plastic and paint were the main
> differences. I wasn't even
> aware that it wrapped a different amt. of cable
> compared to the standard
> Syncro II.
>
> Marc Boral
>
>
> Tom Dalton wrote:
>
> > The two types of cables are distinctly different
> in
> > their construction. I am familliar with the
> > variations in color due to degree of oxidation,
> but
> > this is a structural difference that I recall
> first
> > noticing years ago and have seen many times since.
> > While I sometimes think that I am able to
> hallucinate
> > tiny differences between parts, this one is real.
> I
> > have bugged Mike at Bicycle Classics while looking
> for
> > the finer cables, and he was aware of the
> distinction.
> >
> > As for the Syncro stuff... sorry for second
> guessing
> > you on the Syncro 1 cable thing. I never really
> saw
> > many of those since they didn't work for most
> people.
> > I went back and looked at my old Winning magazines
> to
> > nail down the dates on which Campy first
> advertised
> > certain items. This is not definative, but I
> think
> > its as good as any other means for determining
> that
> > first appearance of a Campy product in the 1980's.
> > I'll post a brief list of my findings and ask for
> > comments (later). One thing I did notice is that
> > there was plenty of advertizing for the Syncro 1,
> but
> > the Syncro 2 just kind of appeared. The question
> I
> > have is this: Did the first Syncro 2 lever come
> out
> > in two versions (large wrap for the 1990 Record
> double
> > pivot der. and regular wrap for Athena, through
> > Croce), or did the regular wrap model come out
> first?
> > I guess the regular wrap model was interchangeable
> > with the Syncro 1 because it had the same cable
> > movement for a given amount of lever rotation. It
> > seems to me that this is the only way the inserts
> > would be the same.
> >
> > --- Marc Boral <mbikealive@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > Yes Tom, I have NOS sets with the thinner
> stainless
> > > cable........for the
> > > second time :-) My literature says that the
> inserts
> > > are interchangeable
> > > for both Syncro & Syncro II.
> > >
> > > I am not sure about there being a difference in
> the
> > > fat cables. I
> > > understand your description, but I can't find
> any
> > > difference between the
> > > larger diameter gear cables. I've got hundreds
> of
> > > examples from the
> > > early years and the very last years. Here's an
> > > observation though:
> > > Gear cables prior to the mid '80s vary wildly in
> > > their coloring. It
> > > seems some of the strands tended to oxidize much
> > > faster than other
> > > strands within the same cable. Sometimes NOS
> cables
> > > can be nice and
> > > silver, consistently dull grey silver, darker
> grey,
> > > silver w/dark grey
> > > stripes............you get the picture. But on
> the
> > > mid '80s cables,
> > > they seem not to oxidize, so the color is
> brighter
> > > and consistent.
> > > Could it be that the older cables look to be
> > > coarser, because of the
> > > oxidized strands? But then that would not
> account
> > > for your observation
> > > of wind angle. Sorry, I don't have an answer.
> > >
> > > Marc Boral
> > >
> > > Tom Dalton wrote:
> > >
> > > > Marc:
> > > >
> > > > Do you have Syncro I's that were packed with
> the
> > > > skinny cables? I had the impression that the
> > > early
> > > > ones were packed with wound stainless housing
> and
> > > fat
> > > > cables. Maybe that's why they never worked
> for
> > > me, I
> > > > was using the wrong cables... oh never mind,
> they
> > > > never worked for anyone!
> > > >
> > > > Did the Syncro I's use the same inserts as the
> > > II's? I
> > > > recall the Chorus having it's own suite of
> inserts
> > > for
> > > > 6 and 7 speeds in both A and B positions and I
> > > never
> > > > thought of those as Syncro I fare. Thus I
> assumed
> > > > that the II came out in support of the Chorus.
> > > But we
> > > > all know what happens when we assume...
> > > >
> > > > In any event, do you know the answer to the
> more
> > > > pressing question (from my perspective) of
> when
> > > the
> > > > fat cables went from the coarse to the fine
> > > windings?
> > > >
> > > > Tom Dalton
> > > >
> > > > --- Marc Boral <mbikealive@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > I respectfully disagree. All the NOS sets
> of
> > > Syncro
> > > > > (debut in '87) I
> > > > > have, come with the thinner stainless
> cables.
> > > > > Syncro II debuted in '88,
> > > > > a year after Chorus.
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc Boral
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Dalton wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > As I recall, the first generation Syncro
> > > levers
> > > > > used
> > > > > > the heavy cables and the Snycro II's used
> the
> > > > > skinny
> > > > > > cables. Because the switch to an
> > > > > index-appropriate
> > > > > > cable on the Syncro II was the driving
> force
> > > > > behind
> > > > > > the change, it is the first appearence of
> > > those
> > > > > > shifters that you need to date. I realize
> > > that I
> > > > > am
> > > > > > answering your question with another
> question,
> > > but
> > > > > it
> > > > > > should be much easier to determine when
> Campy
> > > > > > introduced a new indexing system than a
> new
> > > type
> > > > > of
> > > > > > cable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My best guess on the intro of the Syncro
> II
> === message truncated ===

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