Perhaps it was Mal Rees or Holdsworth that Bill mentioned developing his particular version of the fastback stay. However, I know for certain it was 1938. I will contact him later this week to confirm this.
>From: "Hilary Stone" <Hilary.Stone@Tesco.net>
>To: Donald Dundee <rebour@hotmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR] Cinelli Myths aluminium bars, fastback seatstay
>design
>Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:09:47 +0000
>
>Ken Denny wrote:
> >
> > The BL article implys, and many believe, that Cino developed the allopy
> > handlebar.
> >
> > The development of Cinelli alloy bars, to the best of my knowledge
>came
> > much later in his career, as late as the early 60's, and went into
> > production in the mid 60's. However, I think we should try to determine
> > here, with the help of some of the historians on this list, as to when
>the
> > earliest lightweight, dropped style, racing handlebars first appeared. I
> > know for a fact that Caminade developed them as early as 1935/6, and
>that
> > the British publication "Cycling" hailed that development in as August
>1936
> > article hailing that makers achievements. the 1940 Hudson Superlight
> > Accessories catalog lists Hudson Dural Bars and stems (thanks C.S.).
> >
>Reynolds (the same company that made 531 tubing) offered aluminium alloy
>handlebars from 1935 (and anodised with various colours including black).
>An
>early 1960s Cinelli catalogue I have only features steel bars.
>
>Ken continues:
> Another Cinelli myth, that has long been trademarked as a Cinelli "first"
>is
> > the fastback seat stay. Interesting that there is a Condor on EBay that
>has
> > a very nice fastback seat stay detail. That particular design can be
> > attributed to British builder William B. Hurlow, who developed that idea
>at
> > Condor Cycles in the late 30's, later utilizing it in his own designs as
> > well as for work he jobbed for the Holdsworthy concern. Weather or not
> > Hurlow's work in this area can be attributed to other influences I do
>not
> > know for sure, but in speaking with him on several ocassions, his
>feeling in
> > the design o fthat particular stay detail was that it was a "natural
> > location for the stays to terminate, directly on the centerline of the
>top
> > tube, and the graphic detail of integrating the binder bolt into this
>detail
> > was a 'natural' outcome."
> >
> >
>Condor Cycles did not exist in the 1930s. Bill Hurlow worked at Grubb in
>the
>late 1940s and I don't think went to work for Condors until the early to
>middle 1950s. Whilst at Grubb I don't think he used a fastback seatstay
>design and I don't think he introduced the fastback design at Condors until
>the early to mid 1960s. I have an undated Condor catalogue which I would
>place at about 1960 the fastback design is not featured though the
>various
>Bill Hurlow lug designs are. He also built the top end frames for Mal Rees
>whilst building Condors. Again the one Mal Rees catalogue I have from about
>1962 does not feature fastback stays. However I have a Mercian catalogue
>which appears to be dated as 1959. There they introduce a new model, the
>Superlight which does feature fastback seatstays and which theu claim to be
>new. The fastback seatstay design I think probably can be credited to
>Cinelli though what do we quite mean by fastback design? Cinellis fastened
>his to the seat tube bolt behind the lug most others fastened their's
>directly to the rear of the seat tube.
>
>Regards
>Hilary Stone