Re: [CR]Re: more on decals

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:54:25 -0500
From: Jerry & Liz Moos <>
To: Monkeyman <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: more on decals
References: <l03130300b6a36eb19b05@[]> <l03130302b6a38d71d499@[]>

Well, it is a chicken and egg thing, but I think the repro Reynolds decals showed up because Reynolds refused to supply them. When I wanted to repaint my 1973 LeJeune in the mid 80's I was told you had to supply photos of the bike with original decals AND scrape off and mail the pieces of the old decals to Reynolds, then they might or might not agree to supply replacements. Ray Gasorowski of Romic Cycles repainted it, and even he could only get the ugly respray decals. With this kind of attitude on the part of Reynolds, I regard the guys making the repro decals as heros. When the A-D was repainted a little later, I used a repro 531 decal. I'm not a copyright lawyer, but it seems to me the burden of proving that repros are for a permitted use falls more heavily than it should on the user. I think that hobbists and collectors from all fields (bike, cars, planes, motorcycles, etc.) ought to jointly lobby for legislation which specifically recognizes the right to reproduce parts, decals, logos, etc. for all manufacutered goods for restoration purposes. The only burden that should be on the producer or user of repro parts should be to demonstrate that he did not knowingly use them to misrepresent items.


Jerry Moos

Monkeyman wrote:
> >Actually, it was Cinelli that was knocked off by Windsor.
> Yep, sorry I've never seen one just heard about them.
> >I have a Windsor Pro, and find it a nice enough bike in its own right,
> >that I would
> >never want to pass it off as a Cinelli.
> Anybody that talks about bad mexican quality frames should check some of
> these out. I heard some were bad, but the 3-4 I've seen have been top
> notch.
> >In nearly all cases they themselves created the need for
> >reproduced decals through their arrogant, irresponsible, "the public be
> >damned"
> >attitude of refusing to lift a finger to help legitimate owners of their
> >products obtain replacement decals.
> I contacted Bianchi Italy and USA back in '94 about new decals for my
> Specialissima(sp?) and they had no way of getting new decals, but if I
> wanted new ones I could send them $25 for a full set. While working for
> shops I've ordered new decals from: Trek, Lemond, Salsa, Bontrager, Klein,
> Fuji, Bridgestone, ETC. . . without ever a problem unless you wanted old
> ones. I was told by Bianchi that many of the old decal sets went to
> employees or buddies.
> >for example is quite helpful as was Schwinn in some
> >eras..
> I've done A LOT of Schwinn crusier restoration and in 12 years I've never
> gotten decals from Schwinn. I do own many sets of original and knock-off
> Schwinn decal sets, including one set of Paramount, and some of the
> knock-offs are actually better than the originals. I know Schwinn doesn't
> care about the reproductions as long as they're good quality.
> >Reynolds, at one time, was among the worst, virtually requiring an owner to
> >obtain a joint resolution of Congress and the British Parliament before
> >condescending to supply replacement decals.
> This was because someone on the US started printing Reynolds decals and
> selling them to every shop around and many, many bikes without Reynolds
> tubing were getting this sticker. At least this is what I was told by an
> old time Seattle framebuilder who was told this by his Reynolds rep. I
> remember the bogus tubing decals in stacks in shops during the late-70's.
> What it comes down to is 'most' companies don't care if you reproduce them
> as long as you do it well and do it for restoritive reasons. My guess is
> there are people who did care about Jim and other restorers reproducing
> decals when they were new to the business, but as they gained credibility
> the trademark noose loosened. I know of no company who would prefer you to
> leave the frame decal off the frame after a repaint and I'd be really
> suprised if there was one.
> enjoy,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
> Brandon and Mitzi's-- "Wurld uv Wunder"
> Monkeyman's on going bicycle part garage sale <<<NEW LISTINGS>>>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Nobody can do everything,
> but if everybody did something
> everything would get done.
> -Gil Scott Heron-
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!