Re: [CR] mixing spoke crosses

(Example: Framebuilders:Alberto Masi)

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:10:03 -0700
To: DTSHIFTER@aol.com, sterlingcapital@mail.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: "Bicycle Classics inc" <bikevint@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: [CR] mixing spoke crosses


Regarding spoke cross mixes, there is a reason why using fewer crosses on the non-drive side may be less desirable. On a wheel with dish, the drive side spokes have to fight in a sense to pull the rim over - this puts stress on the drive side spokes. As an engineering friend tells me, the more the non-drive side spokes behave like a spring, the less stress on the drive side. That is why use of lighter guage spokes on the non-drive is quite desirable. Using shorter spokes as a result of a lower cross number lessens the "spring" effect - more crosses increase it.

The upshot is that fewer crosses on the non-drive side increases the stress on the drive side, but use of a shorter spoke gives the spoke less of a flexing feel - so one often thinks that it is really under greater tension (which it is not). Now, there are also torque advantages of different configurations - which I don't have time to sort out as I write this - but one just should try to put all this info into the mix of determining optimal lacing pattern.

Note that the radial non-drive pattern on 8-10 sp wheels actually works pretty well. But the key here, I believe, is that since all the spokes go inboard with this pattern, net stress on the drive side is reduced - so the inboard spoke stress reduction is more beneficial than the loss of spring nature from using shorter spokes.

Perhaps this will ignite some wheel building discussion as everyone I talk too seems to have different ideas on what works best overall. Mike "opening the can of worms" Kone

At 04:04 PM 3/21/01 EST, DTSHIFTER@aol.com wrote:
>Sterling,
>
>By "problems" do you mean breakage; difficult lacing; or...?
>
>I generally do 4x whenever I can on the drive side (3x;2x;1x on the non-drive
>side depending on my mood and what spokes I happen to have in stock - I like
>the way the pattern looks from right-to-left). It is a bit more tedious with
>small flange hubs and for road bikes I always have the pulling spokes exit
>from the outside of the flange. I have also found 15ga spokes w/spoke
>washers allows clearance between the spoke shaft and the head and gives a
>good seat into the flange body, but for best result you may have to slightly
>relieve the spoke holes (I use a drill press).
>
>As Brandon mentioned, we went round 'n round on this a while back and will
>not come to a consensus I'm certain. However, there are differences in
>lacing patterns which can be felt in the riding (there are also differences
>in wheel building which can be felt in the riding as well!). The ideal would
>be for you to have two identical sets of wheels, one laced 4x & the other
>laced 3x, and see if you could tell the difference. Of course you have to
>use an assistant so you wouldn't know which ones where which (the Heisenberg
>principal applied to the "seat of the pants") and then if you couldn't tell a
>difference, go with what is easiest.
>
>Hope this helps a bit......
>
>Chuck Brooks
>Malta (another Nor'easter headed this way but only "slop" they say??) NY