Hi all:
I would like to stick my verbal neck out here and give credit where it is due. Sorry Wes, I don't mean to single you, or anyone out here.
The mountain bike industry was not the first to use tig-welding, and large diameter tubing for greater strength with more exotic metals. Although I am not sure that there wasn't someone who used these methods earlier, I would have to say that it was (road bike) builders of the late 70's who first experimented with tig-welded aluminum and titanium frames. On the subject of oversized (aluminum) tubing, Gary Klein, IMHO, should get a lot (if not all) of the credit. And titanium? Teledyne was clearly the standout, but speedwell and others beat the mountain bike industry to the punch. As far as tig-welded cro-mo goes, credit should go the the BMX industry just prior to the birth of the MTB industry. Even Pino Moroni beat the MTB guys to the fancy aluminum/titanium quick-releases. The truth be known, the mountain bike industry grew out of the road bike industry and the BMX industry, and the first mountain bikes were not tig welded, rather mostly fillet brazed, and some were built partially with lugs.
Sorry Dale, I strayed a bit, but to make a point that most of what the MTB industry was given credit for, they didn't do. I'm sure someone will correct me somehow, and I'm probably leaving someone out, but it was builders like Tom Ritchey, who was a very fast junior road racer beating most of the best senior riders in his district and consistent fastest time of the day at northern Calif. time trials (on frames he built and in much the same fashion that one Greg Lemond did a few hears later - but Greg wasn't a frame builder), and Joe Breeze, who was (is?) a very successful cat. 1 or 2 road rider. And another MTB guy, Gary Fisher, came out ot the same no. Cal. road racing ranks as Joe and Tom, but wasn't known as a frame builder. All were road racers, and Tom and Joe were road bike builders, who obviously liked to tinker with all kinds of bikes. Enough to help to inspire a whole new industry change. During the 70's the quest was for the lightest complete bike, (Anyone remember the 10 1/2 lb. track bike that Panasonic put toghther?), and KLEIN and TELEDYNE had the guts to experiment with something new that could bring those weights down a notch. And it was a hard sell, people didn't want to believe that an aluminum frame could be stiffer than a traditional steel frame.
Personally, I prefer lugs on my bikes, but I have had my KLEIN since new in '77, and I wish I had a TELEDYNE too, and probably will someday. But I would also like to own a Hetchins, Masi, Miyata Team Professional (blue & gold w/ Dura Ace AX or EX?), 60's Schwinn Paramount, Maybe even one of the green Nishiki Professionals from about '73, and countless others. I love fancy lug work, and I have mixed feelings about the stamped-steel vs. investment-cast lugs issue.
On the subject of lugs, it has been my understanding (and these facts have appeared several times throughout both my education and trade experience), that the use of silver-solder requires a uniform gap between the lug and the tube, of (I believe) .003" to .005". And if there should be an area where the gap gets wider than that, the solder will go around the wider area, leaving a hidden bubble of air. Investment-cast lugs make it easier to maintain that uniform gap throughout. Stamped-steel lugs always have an area where there is more than .005" gap, and require brass (or nickel-silver) rod to fill the wider gaps inherent in their design. To me, and I am only a modestly experienced hobbyist/frame-builder, investment-cast joints allow for very accurate, close-fitting, strong joints.
Of the frames I have built, only 5, three have investment-cast lugs, BB shells, drop-outs & fork-crowns. One is fillet-brazed, and the other was built with Prugnet long-point, stamped-steel lugs. That bike was torn in two by a Lincoln. I don't know the details, but I ended up with it's remains, and the head-lugs were literally torn in two at the point where the tubes come together, which incidentally is the area where there is a small, fillet-like area filled with softer brass. Tha part of the lug that was brazed to the head-tube stayed attached all the way around, and likewise for the portions with the long points remaining completely attached to the top- and down-tubes. To me, this suggests a weakness in the area where there is a greater gap between the lug and tube, which is being filled with softer material. It also suggests that great force was used to cause the damage. Other, experienced people looked at the damage, and said that there was nothing wrong with the brazing of the joint. I hope nobody else gets to have their frames tested this way, but I'm convinced that Investment-cast products are a better way to go.
I have also experimented with the use of polished stainless steel, to avoid a trip to the chrome shop, with great success, and will miss having G.P. Wilson drop-outs available in the future, but am glad that there are other stainless frame components available now. Again IMHO, I'm glad someone is making this stuff, and can't wait to have a workshop again. Soon, real soon.
Sorry to drag on so long, but I just couldn't stop my fingers.
"Bicycle Mark" Perkins in warm, sunny, Visalia, CA
PS: I did about 40 miles in the hills today, and I needed it.
Cheers everyone!
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:09:44 EST Wdgadd@aol.com writes:
> This has been an interesting thread to follow. I have a couple of
>
> "snip"<
>
> I believe the mountain bike played a large role in the demise of
the
> classic/vintage cycle. Cyclists were said to be a conservative bunch
who
> approached innovation cautiously. The mountain bike revolution broke
that
> wide open with all kinds of" out of the box "thinking (such as electric
> welding of lightweight tubing).
>
>"snip"<
>
> Best Regards, Wes Gadd
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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