Following the discussions for the last few weeks, I became confused about what is a vintage lightweight. When I checked with the definition of vintage lightweights on the homepage, it said that the discussion would center on bikes from the turn of the century to the early eighties. That was reassuring to me because I had come to believe through these posts that if a bike wasn't built in the seventies, by Mario, lugged, with Campy components, etc. that somehow it wasn't a vintage lightweight. When I saw the post for the 37 Peugeot for sale, I realized that the bikes that I really love, and that I know little about ,are those bikes by big and small frame builders that set the stage and paved the way for what many of you call "the Pinnacle" of vintage lightweights. I'd be interested in hearing about and seeing images of pre 1950 bikes that were the forerunners of those popular bikes from the sixties and seventies. I hope that a discussion of bikes that don't have dropped Cinelli bars is not off topic. I think early experiments with gearing systems, including Sturmey Archer are interesting in this context. I would just like to here some comments about older bikes. I think it's interesting that there has been no discussion whatever on the Emil Wastyn Paramount from the '30's on e-bay but we've had a painfully long discussion on shoes!