This is just to let those of you who are interested, that I've set up a website for my bike (okay bikes) at:
http://www.appleonline.net/
Thanks to Dale, Gareth and Nelson who donated their photos/pictures. A special thanks also to Amaki Akihiko, who a lot of you may know as the (in)famous 'Kauzo' on eBay.
He outbid me on a Carlton catalogue recently, and when I e-mailed him, he promptly offered to photocopy and send it for free, and within half-an-hour had also sent the twelve pictures of his bike that are on the website. He is certainly as passionate about his bike(s) as most of you are on this list, and is definitely more passionate than me. I daresay that if I didn't already spend so much money on beer, golf, cars etc. I would pay above the going rate for that otherwise unobtainable item to feed my addiction...
Anyway; additions (in the form of photos/info), comments, corrections and insults will all be welcomed, I would like to make a history page and a model time-line. I also hope to be re-finishing the frame soon, and scanning in the catalogue when I receive it, so watch this space.
Regards
Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
> [SMTP:classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:22 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #599 - 23 msgs
>
> Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.bikelist.org/
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
>
>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Track bars (Donald A Walter)
> 2. [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
> (questor@cinci.rr.com)
> 3. Re: Bruce Gordon (Kenneth Wallace)
> 4. Speaking of Legnano's.. (Jim Hultman)
> 5. Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
> (Philcycles@aol.com)
> 6. Re: Little known builders (DMart84815@aol.com)
> 7. Re: Little known builders; Sam Braxton (Monkeyman)
> 8. Re: Re: Campag track hub warranty issue (Huemax@aol.com)
> 9. Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size] (Monkeyman)
> 10. RE: Re: Campag track hub warranty issue (Mark Petry)
> 11. Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars , hubs, thier strength (Huemax@aol.com)
> 12. RE: Little known builders; Sam Braxton (Mark Bulgier)
> 13. Re: Re: French diameter FD & Peugeot opinions solicited (David
> Benson)
> 14. Re: coppi photo (David Benson)
> 15. Shipping wheels, was Re: [CR]Rear Wheel (Harvey M Sachs)
> 16. Re: Shipping wheels, was Re: [CR]Rear Wheel (Bob Reid)
> 17. RE: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars , hubs, thier strength (Moos, Jerry)
> 18. RE: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size] (Moos, Jerry)
> 19. eBay Raleigh Spotting (THOMAS ADAMS)
> 20. Geminiani (Clive's Quality Training)
> 21. RE: Speaking of Legnano's.. (Moos, Jerry)
> 22. Re: eBay Raleigh Spotting (THOMAS ADAMS)
> 23. RE: Re: French diameter FD & Peugeot opinions solicited (Moos,
> Jerry)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:24:07 -0800
> From: Donald A Walter <donrazr@juno.com>
> Subject: [CR]Track bars
>
> Where can one get track bars of modern manufacture with classic track
> configuration? Thank you for the help.
> Don Walter
> Tucson, AZ
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:46:44 -0400
> From: questor@cinci.rr.com
> Reply-To: questor@cinci.rr.com
> To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
>
> You probably are refering to Cinelli Pista curved (no brake handle) bars
> used in track or criterium races. Raddoneur bars are used for mostly
> road races or criteriums and allow brake handles to be mounted. These
> can be found on ebay for $30 to $80, depending on the season and style.
> Track bars can be found in two main types: steel (more strength and
> durable) or alloy (less weight).
>
> However, ***you should know in advance what width size bars you need
> (e.g. 58cm, 60cm, 62cm, or 64cm) and what diameter size stem you
> currently have***. Nitto and Cinelli Pista bars are uniquely different
> diameter sizes!
>
> Regards, Steve
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Kenneth Wallace" <kwallace62@home.com>
> To: <jet@sciti.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Bruce Gordon
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:37:40 -0700
>
> This guy wasn't BG. It was the shorter swarthy guy who hung with him.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeanette Bell" <jet@sciti.com>
> To: "Kenneth Wallace" <kwallace62@home.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Bruce Gordon
>
>
> > Ken,
> > The guy you talked to sounds a lot like BG hisself. One of his favorite
> > pastimes at those trade shows is to impersonate anybody but him. I have
> > impersonated him myself by trading eyeglasses and schmoozing potential
> customers
> > while BG stood in the background looking stupid. Some people also
> thought
> we
> > were brothers with the same mother, different fathers. BG is easily
> amused at
> > boring trade shows, so if you find yourself talking to a cranky
> machinist
> with a
> > penchant for bullshit who says he's not Bruce Gordon, it's probably him!
> > Joe Bell
> > (BG lookalike contest winner)
> >
> > Kenneth Wallace wrote:
> >
> > > At the Anaheim show a few years ago, I was talking to someone at Bruce
> > > Gordon's booth. I have a lugged Gordon and asked about the price of a
> > > lugged frame. Gordon wanted $3200 for a lugged frams (acording to
> this
> guy)
> > > because he had burned out his lungs not wearing a mask, and if he had
> to
> > > strap one on to do a brazed frame, he wanted a lot of money,
> > >
> > > Ken Wallace in sunny Phoenix (Oh, wait, that's redundant)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: "Jim Hultman" <JimHultman@email.msn.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:11:36 -0700
> Subject: [CR]Speaking of Legnano's..
>
> Speaking of Legnano's, I've just purchased one & I'd like to get your
> opinion on its age. The frameset is Reynolds 531, chrome fork, pale blue
> metallic finish. Lugs are rather long, single point...no chrome anywhere
> aside from the fork. Seatstays are simple looking; come to a point at
> mid-seat lug. The frame measures 58.5x58.5 c/c. It's got a Shimano 6 speed
> on a Normandy Luxe Competition high flange hubset, 700c Weinmanns, the
> oldest Shimano 600 rr derailleur ( flourishes) , Ofmega NR copy cranks,
> Ofmega HS, Universal Super 68 calipers.
> There is a small round, red Legnano Gran Premio decal on the downtube...&
> a
> decal in the shape of a scroll at the shifters (Campy) that reads "Legnano
> 6
> Volte Campione del Mondo".
> The bike is a comfortable ride, steers quite nicely; no toe
> overlap...neither squirrely nor slow. It doesn't 'feel' as old as the
> components, actually. What year might it be?
> Jim Hultman
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: Philcycles@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:19:15 EDT
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>
> In a message dated 6/13/01 6:49:18 PM, questor@cinci.rr.com writes:
>
> << However, ***you should know in advance what width size bars you need
> (e.g. 58cm, 60cm, 62cm, or 64cm) and what diameter size stem you
> currently have***. Nitto and Cinelli Pista bars are uniquely different
> diameter sizes!
> >>
>
> Don't know where those sizes came from-bars are usually from 38cm to 46cm
> or
> so. Track bars run from 38 to 42 or so.
> Phil Brown
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: DMart84815@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:23:34 EDT
> Subject: Re: [CR]Little known builders
> To: jet@sciti.com
> Cc: ClassicRendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> Hello Joe.
>
> Brian Spitz works with
> Peter
> Johnson at Peters machine shop.
> Dave
> Martinez
>
> Fremont Ca
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:31:37 -0700
> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> From: Monkeyman <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Little known builders; Sam Braxton
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> You're right I'm not old enough to have read everything, just
> everything from about '87 and only bits and pieces from the ten years
> prior. I actually grew up about 100 West of him in Coeur d'Alene,
> Idaho and ever heard of him until I moved to Seattle and worked with
> a guy named Monty"Montana"Pirtle who worked for him way back. It
> doesn't surprise me that he was close to the BikeCentennial folks
> since from what I've heard they were founded in his shop. Anyway
> he's just one of those people I'm fascinated by. SO if anyone has
> the aforementioned articles I'll be more than happy to trade for an
> Art Stump aricle or something.
> enjoy,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>
> >In a message dated 6/13/2001 2:09:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >monkey37@bluemarble.net writes:
> >
> ><< The guy I started with, Sam
> > Braxton, has never to my knowledge had anything writeen about him in
> the
> > cycling press and only 2 other people on the list have even heard of
> > him. >>
> >
> >
> >You guys are just not old enough... Braxton had a bit or two about him
> in
> >the old Bike World and was pretty well known to BikeCentennial riders. He
> was
> >also known to be grumpy to the extreme at times and hard nosed about his
> bike
> >designs... Not that that is bad!!!!
> >
> >Dale Brown
> >Greensboro, NC
> >
> >_______________________________________________
>
>
> --
> Huge Spring Cleaning Bike Parts Sale
> http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Nobody can do everything,
> but if everybody did something
> everything would get done.
> -Gil Scott Heron-
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: Huemax@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:42:38 EDT
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Campag track hub warranty issue
> To: david@bikecult.com, fixed-gear@lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> I do not understand Campagnolo nor this discussion. The track hub has
> less
> capacity than Road hubs????
>
> I have seen some Olympic track racings and real Keirin competitions, many
> power riders of short distant are huge, 200 to 250 lb (?) with tremendous
> body (legs).
>
> It was understood in young mind that they could not hold up Quick Release
> skewer, and has to use 1/8" chain ring with fixed gear. Why do not use
> 3/32"
> lighter chain?
> Also, why they tighten hub shaft with lugs? Moreover, there is very
> critical inspection of Keirin frame every year or less for metal fatigue!
>
> I remember seeing a keirin racer was practicing with 48 to 14 T gear
> climbing
> up very steep hill while I cound not move there 42 to 21T. I was walking
>
> up, and he passed me. I felt his power, and thought he could break
> Shimano/Suntour parts!
> It was about 1970.
>
> KEN TODA, I can not remember what kind of bike he had, but he had one or
> two
> spare tires, and the saddle so small and funny.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:45:33 -0700
> To: questor@cinci.rr.com
> From: Monkeyman <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> >You probably are refering to Cinelli Pista curved (no brake handle) bars
> >used in track or criterium races. Raddoneur bars are used for mostly
> >road races or criteriums and allow brake handles to be mounted.
>
> You can put brake levers on the track bars and the big difference
> from "regular" road bars is they have very little flat on the top of
> the bars and the bends are deeper. I like to use track bars for
> Psychocross myself. Also, Raundoneur bars are really not for any
> kind of racing, but were designed for touring in specific.
>
> >However, ***you should know in advance what width size bars you need
> >(e.g. 58cm, 60cm, 62cm, or 64cm) and what diameter size stem you
> >currently have***. Nitto and Cinelli Pista bars are uniquely different
> >diameter sizes!
>
> I not sure what you're talking about concerning widths since I've
> know of no road bar that goes even to 58cm. Also the breakdown for
> bar clamp diameter is 25.4mm for most Japanese and basic bars before
> 1970, 26.0mm for most European bars and post 70s bars, and 26.4mm is
> Cinelli's specific size. This is the reason I like 26.0 steel stem
> since you can shim them easily for 25.4 and they will stretch just
> fine for 26.4.
>
> enjoy,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>
> --
> Huge Spring Cleaning Bike Parts Sale
> http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Nobody can do everything,
> but if everybody did something
> everything would get done.
> -Gil Scott Heron-
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "Mark Petry" <mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net>
> To: <Huemax@aol.com>, <david@bikecult.com>,
> <fixed-gear@lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]Re: Campag track hub warranty issue
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:13:54 -0700
>
> I have no evidence here, only conjecture, but I suspect that the Campy
> track
> hubs get fractured not by brutal sprinting but by getting beat over the
> bumps, which subjects the wheel to loads that are not evenly distributed
> across all spokes.
>
> A powerful sprinter will strain the wheel and hub, sure, but that's a very
> different kind of loading than a city pothole with the rider's full weight
> bearing down.
>
> markp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Huemax@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:43 PM
> To: david@bikecult.com; fixed-gear@lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Campag track hub warranty issue
>
>
> I do not understand Campagnolo nor this discussion. The track hub has
> less
> capacity than Road hubs????
>
> I have seen some Olympic track racings and real Keirin competitions, many
> power riders of short distant are huge, 200 to 250 lb (?) with tremendous
> body (legs).
>
> It was understood in young mind that they could not hold up Quick Release
> skewer, and has to use 1/8" chain ring with fixed gear. Why do not use
> 3/32"
> lighter chain?
> Also, why they tighten hub shaft with lugs? Moreover, there is very
> critical inspection of Keirin frame every year or less for metal fatigue!
>
> I remember seeing a keirin racer was practicing with 48 to 14 T gear
> climbing
> up very steep hill while I cound not move there 42 to 21T. I was walking
> up, and he passed me. I felt his power, and thought he could break
> Shimano/Suntour parts!
> It was about 1970.
>
> KEN TODA, I can not remember what kind of bike he had, but he had one or
> two
> spare tires, and the saddle so small and funny.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> From: Huemax@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:32:36 EDT
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars , hubs, thier strength
> To: questor@cinci.rr.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> Here we go again, what I remember was; the Track handle bar was usually
> chromoly steel. So as stems. Can you imagine if a strong Keirin racer
> rode
> a bike with AVA
> death stem and bars???, he might never make 1000 meter goal ahead!
>
> Some one please help me for a termnology, there was a type of racing
> (track)
> called "Oikosi", which Japanese term means "Passing". At least a team of
> two
> riders cruise around track and at certain spot, pass each other. It was
> FAST, speed over 100km/h (63mph+), at moment. I do not think they can use
> a
> road racer bike for this. It will break down in a few seconds!
>
> KEN TODA, I was once impressed "human power" and speed with bike.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]Little known builders; Sam Braxton
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:38:16 -0700
>
> Sam visited the Davidson shop when I worked there and was given a tour.
> He
> was very polite and humble, even excessively so. We knew that, though we
> had more machinery and made more frames in a month than he ever had, he
> made
> very nice frames and there's nothing wrong with being small.
>
> I liked his touring bikes with the pannier racks *brazed* to the seatstays
> -- AND to the seat tube. No kidding around!
>
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle, Wa USA
>
> Monkeyman wrote:
> >
> > << The guy I started with, Sam
> > Braxton, has never to my knowledge had anything written
> > about him in the cycling press and only 2 other people on
> > the list have even heard of him. >>
>
> and Dale replied:
>
> > You guys are just not old enough... Braxton had a bit or two
> > about him in the old Bike World and was pretty well known to
> > BikeCentennial riders. He was also known to be grumpy to the
> > extreme at times and hard nosed about his bike designs...
> > Not that that is bad!!!!
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:01:00 +1200
> From: David Benson <tech@worrall.co.nz>
> To: Mark Battley <m.battley@irl.cri.nz>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: French diameter FD & Peugeot opinions solicited
>
> Mark,
> I'm not absolutely sure, but I understand that some Peugots sold in New
> Zealand were
> made under licence by Healings, who were the agent for Peugot at that
> time.
> In 1990 I went to the auction of the Healing plant in Christchurch and I
> still have a
> couple of french thread bottom bracket shells that we got as part of a job
> lot.
> Surprisingly, I used a few over the next few years, generally on French
> frames with
> cracked BB shells.
> That's a market which seems to have dried up.
>
> A few years back I built a touring frame out of metric sized Columbus GT
> tubing.
> None of the tubes fit my tube blocks, so I had to use a workstand to hold
> the tubes for
> mitring. It wouldn't have been my first choice, but I already owned the
> tubeset...
>
> The rear derailler hanger thread is M10 x 1. Its a standard thread that
> you can get
> readily from engineers suppliers.
> DB
>
> Mark Battley wrote:
>
> > My 1979 Peugeot has metric diameter Vitus 172DB tubing (26.0 TT, 28.0
> > ST&DT), but with an English threaded BB. Stem was 22.0, but a 22.2
> fitted
> > with only very slight mods to the wedge.
> >
> > A standard (Shimano) FD clamped on without any problems. When I got the
> bike
> > I expected all sorts of hassles with fitting more modern components, but
> it
> > turned out to be quite straightforward.
> >
> > On a related subject:
> > >The one I have appears to be a lugged, steel-frame 10-speed built
> > >around (I'm guessing) 1980 or so.... I've recently read that many
> older
> > >Peugeots had an odd rear dropout which can't accept modern rear
> derailleur
> > >hardware. The question is, how do I tell whether the bike I have can
> take
> > >modern derailleur hardware?
> >
> > If it is about 1980 you might be okay. Easiest way probably is to try -
> see
> > if you can pick up a trashed derailleur from a bike shop and see if the
> > thread fits. My understanding is that if it is not the same any bike
> shop
> > should be able to retap it to a "modern" thread. In my case the thread
> is
> > "modern", but when I got the bike the one non-standard component was the
> RD
> > which had been replaced by an early Suntour Superb-pro, so it is
> possible
> > that it may already have been modified.
> >
> > Mark Battley.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:06:47 +1200
> From: David Benson <tech@worrall.co.nz>
> To: Aldo Ross <swampmtn@siscom.net>
> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]coppi photo
>
> Looking through Jacques Augendre's book on Coppi, he seems to have
> preferred his rear QR on the right. This makes some sense from a
> mechanics perspective- tightening both quick releases becomes a right
> handed job.
> My friend Gaz, who's in the clothing business
> (http://www.n-zone.co.nz/), pointed out that his jersey was knitted on a
> tube.
> DB
>
> Aldo Ross wrote:
>
> > Also on eBay - an excellent photo of Fausto Coppi with his Bianchi.
> >
> > http://ebay.com/
> >
> > things I noticed:
> >
> > binder bolt
> >
> > gob of tape around brake lever clamp
> >
> > pre-"Extra" Universal brake caliper (no qr)
> >
> > rear wheel qr lever on drive side
> >
> > nut and bolt through back of pedal
> >
> > full length cable housing to rear derailleur
> >
> > Aldo Ross
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:06:40 -0400
> To: Donald A Walter <donrazr@juno.com>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> From: Harvey M Sachs <sachs@erols.com>
> Subject: Shipping wheels, was Re: [CR]Rear Wheel
>
> Wheels seem hard to box and to ship cost-effectively. What works? I have
>
> several rear wheels I'd be happy to post, but the hassle factor looks so
> formidable that they languish in the corners...
>
> harvey sachs
> mclean, va
>
> At 14:54 6/5/2001 -0800, Donald A Walter wrote:
> >Does anybody have a reasonably round and true 700C clincher rear wheel
> >with 126mm rear spacing that they are not interested in and would be
> >willing to part with for a reasonable sum? Classic era preferred, but
> >high end not preferred. (Araya and Sansin would be fine).
> >Also, when did Mavic change from the red label with diamond logo to the
> >yellow and green label on their rims? Was this change concurrent with a
> >change in leadership/ownership?
> >Thanks in advance. Don W. Tucson, AZ
> >
> >_______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:16:30 +0100
> Subject: Re: Shipping wheels, was Re: [CR]Rear Wheel
> From: Bob Reid <bob.reid@btconnect.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> Harvey,
>
> Get along to your nearest LBS that sells high-end wheels - almost all
> "wheelsets" (Campag Nucleon etc.) come packed in stout carboard boxes
> obviously already the right size for two wheels. You'll also find many
> LBS's
> will have plenty of those plastic plugs lying about that push over the QR
> axle in place of the skewer (get the "sombrero" shaped ones). These are to
> protect not only the threads of the axle, but to prevent the box from
> being
> punctured. In addition I've packaged them in bubblewrap and had no
> problems
> so far.
>
> Bob (my shop's called 'Wheels') Reid
> Stonehaven
> Scotland
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 17
> From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
> To: "'Huemax@aol.com'" <Huemax@aol.com>, questor@cinci.rr.com,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars , hubs, thier strength
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:59:02 -0400
>
> Do you mean Pursuit?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Huemax@aol.com [mailto:Huemax@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:33 AM
> To: questor@cinci.rr.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars , hubs, thier strength
>
>
> Here we go again, what I remember was; the Track handle bar was usually
> chromoly steel. So as stems. Can you imagine if a strong Keirin racer
> rode
>
> a bike with AVA
> death stem and bars???, he might never make 1000 meter goal ahead!
>
> Some one please help me for a termnology, there was a type of racing
> (track)
>
> called "Oikosi", which Japanese term means "Passing". At least a team of
> two
> riders cruise around track and at certain spot, pass each other. It was
> FAST, speed over 100km/h (63mph+), at moment. I do not think they can use
> a
>
> road racer bike for this. It will break down in a few seconds!
>
> KEN TODA, I was once impressed "human power" and speed with bike.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 18
> From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
> To: "'questor@cinci.rr.com'" <questor@cinci.rr.com>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:11:58 -0400
>
> I think you mean Maes bars for road racing. Randonneur bars are used for
> touring. The tops bend down a bit, then up again before the curve down to
> the drops begins. This allows more variation of hand positions on the
> tops
> for comfort on long tours. Maes are the most familar drop bars with flat
> tops, named after the great pre-WWII Belgian champion Sylvere Maes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: questor@cinci.rr.com [mailto:questor@cinci.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:47 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [Fwd: [CR]Track bars - where found and what size]
>
>
> You probably are refering to Cinelli Pista curved (no brake handle) bars
> used in track or criterium races. Raddoneur bars are used for mostly
> road races or criteriums and allow brake handles to be mounted. These
> can be found on ebay for $30 to $80, depending on the season and style.
> Track bars can be found in two main types: steel (more strength and
> durable) or alloy (less weight).
>
> However, ***you should know in advance what width size bars you need
> (e.g. 58cm, 60cm, 62cm, or 64cm) and what diameter size stem you
> currently have***. Nitto and Cinelli Pista bars are uniquely different
> diameter sizes!
>
> Regards, Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 19
> From: "THOMAS ADAMS" <KCTOMMY@msn.com>
> To: "Classic List" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:38:35 -0500
> Subject: [CR]eBay Raleigh Spotting
>
> =20
> eBay spotting report. Raleigh International, 24.5 inch, reportedly NIB.=
> Bronze Green. Picture on auction looks like catalog page instead of ac=
> tual bike. Seller also lists wheels as 27 inch, whereas I thought Intern=
> ationals came with Tubies. I'd be interested but I already have an Inter=
> national.
>
> No relation to seller
>
> Tom Adams, Kansas City
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> From: "Clive's Quality Training" <cqt@intercoast.com.au>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:41:32 +1000
> Subject: [CR]Geminiani
>
> I too have a Gem to restore.
> Does anyone have decals/head-seat decals/badges for sale??
> Thanks Clive.
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 21
> From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
> To: 'Jim Hultman' <JimHultman@email.msn.com>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]Speaking of Legnano's..
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:35:20 -0400
>
> The first step to dating a Legnano is to check out the seat binder bolt.
> Legnanos made when the company was independent, in the late 70's and
> before,
> almost alway have the unique binder bolt IN FRONT of the seat tube rather
> than behind it. This required a unique rear centerpull brake hanger,
> also,
> which bolted into a threaded hole behind the seat tube, since there was no
> binder bolt behind the seat to secure a normal hanger to. From the 80's
> on,
> Legnanos were made by Bianchi and were essentially identical to the
> corresponding Bianchi models, except for paint and decals. These lack the
> unique binder bolt and hanger. I've seen several Bianchi-made Legnanos
> that
> were the same frame as the Bianchi TSX/UL, a top Bianchi model made from
> the
> mid 80's until 1997. BTW, the "Gran Premio" decal is puzzling, as in the
> 60's and 70's the Gran Premio was a lower end model with lesser tubing,
> not
> 531. The top model then was the Tipo Roma. Maybe Bianchi used the
> Legnano
> model names differently.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Hultman [mailto:JimHultman@email.msn.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 11:12 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Speaking of Legnano's..
>
>
> Speaking of Legnano's, I've just purchased one & I'd like to get your
> opinion on its age. The frameset is Reynolds 531, chrome fork, pale blue
> metallic finish. Lugs are rather long, single point...no chrome anywhere
> aside from the fork. Seatstays are simple looking; come to a point at
> mid-seat lug. The frame measures 58.5x58.5 c/c. It's got a Shimano 6 speed
> on a Normandy Luxe Competition high flange hubset, 700c Weinmanns, the
> oldest Shimano 600 rr derailleur ( flourishes) , Ofmega NR copy cranks,
> Ofmega HS, Universal Super 68 calipers.
> There is a small round, red Legnano Gran Premio decal on the downtube...&
> a
> decal in the shape of a scroll at the shifters (Campy) that reads "Legnano
> 6
> Volte Campione del Mondo".
> The bike is a comfortable ride, steers quite nicely; no toe
> overlap...neither squirrely nor slow. It doesn't 'feel' as old as the
> components, actually. What year might it be?
> Jim Hultman
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 22
> From: "THOMAS ADAMS" <KCTOMMY@msn.com>
> To: "Classic List" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]eBay Raleigh Spotting
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:44:49 -0500
>
> Oops. Forgot the URL. http://ebay.com/
> m&item=3D1155786560
> =20
>
> Tom Adams, apparently too early in Kansas City
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: THOMAS ADAMS
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:43 AM
> To: Classic List
> Subject: [CR]eBay Raleigh Spotting
> =20
> =20
> eBay spotting report. Raleigh International, 24.5 inch, reportedly NIB. =
> Bronze Green. Picture on auction looks like catalog page instead of act=
> ual bike. Seller also lists wheels as 27 inch, whereas I thought Interna=
> tionals came with Tubies. I'd be interested but I already have an Intern=
> ational.
>
> No relation to seller
>
> Tom Adams, Kansas City
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 23
> From: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>
> To: 'Mark Battley' <m.battley@irl.cri.nz>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, msherck@aol.comimagine
> Subject: RE: [CR]Re: French diameter FD & Peugeot opinions solicited
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:16:34 -0400
>
> The 60's and 70's era French bikes typically had Simplex dropouts. These
> have a non-threaded hole and lack the "notch" in the front of the DO which
> Campy DOs use as a rotation stop. The Simplex derailleurs typically used
> with these thread into a nut that presses into the inside of the DO. The
> rotation stop is provided by a tab on the derailleur near the upper pivot.
> You can tap a Simplex DO for modern pivot bolts and file a notch into them
> for the stop. Personally, I would rather find an old Simplex derailleur
> or
> use a bolt-on hanger, rather than desecrate and old French frame like
> that.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Battley [mailto:m.battley@irl.cri.nz]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:23 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; msherck@aol.comimagine
> Subject: [CR]Re: French diameter FD & Peugeot opinions solicited
>
>
> >Sheldon has an excellent discussion of this on his web site. The French
> tubes
> >were metric gauge, i.e. the ODs were whole mm, 26.0mm for the top tube,
> 28.0mm for
> >seat tube and down tube. Other tube sets were really English OD, 1"
> (25.4mm) for
> >top tube and 1 1/8" (28.6mm) for the seat tube and down tube. As to
> when,
> the
> >French used these dimensions in the 60's and perhaps much much earlier,
> and
> my
> >1986 Peugeot PZ-10 still has metric tubing even though the threading is
> English.
> >Why? I suppose the French, who invented the metric system, found it
> logical to
> >have tube ODs, and therefore clampon component IDs, in even mm rather
> than
> in
> >inches. Makes sense to me, but they lost the standards war in the
> marketplace.
>
> My 1979 Peugeot has metric diameter Vitus 172DB tubing (26.0 TT, 28.0
> ST&DT), but with an English threaded BB. Stem was 22.0, but a 22.2 fitted
> with only very slight mods to the wedge.
>
> A standard (Shimano) FD clamped on without any problems. When I got the
> bike
> I expected all sorts of hassles with fitting more modern components, but
> it
> turned out to be quite straightforward.
>
> On a related subject:
> >The one I have appears to be a lugged, steel-frame 10-speed built
> >around (I'm guessing) 1980 or so.... I've recently read that many older
> >Peugeots had an odd rear dropout which can't accept modern rear
> derailleur
> >hardware. The question is, how do I tell whether the bike I have can
> take
> >modern derailleur hardware?
>
> If it is about 1980 you might be okay. Easiest way probably is to try -
> see
> if you can pick up a trashed derailleur from a bike shop and see if the
> thread fits. My understanding is that if it is not the same any bike shop
> should be able to retap it to a "modern" thread. In my case the thread is
> "modern", but when I got the bike the one non-standard component was the
> RD
> which had been replaced by an early Suntour Superb-pro, so it is possible
> that it may already have been modified.
>
> Mark Battley.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest
>
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