[CR]RE: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #750 - 25 msgs

> It was typed by Karen Rawls:
>
> >I have successfully used "Kroil" to unstick stuck stems and seat posts...
> >Sorry but I do not know where to tell you to get it...
> >Perhaps a Yahoo search?
>
> First hit in Google: http://www.kanolabs.com/kanopnlu.htm

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Message: 7 From: Wornoutguy@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:59:37 EDT To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]It worked out I now own a 70s Paramount track bike

It is all original Campi Pista except the saddle is not from the 70s. It is

too large for me is there anyone on the list who wants to talk about trade or purchase. I just could not pass it up sitting there waiting for me to take it home. 21 top tube center to center 20.5 down tube center to center, high

flange hubs, Schwinn 330 sew up rims, full campi pista group with 2 bolt seat post I can send photos to anyone interested. Sam D.

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Message: 8 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Paulie Davis <paulieflt@yahoo.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Discovering Why Good Parts Are Good

--- Thomas Rawson <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> But old stuff that is truly good is truly worth lusting for. New stuff that is good is the future collectible - with any luck - and a steady hand at the helm - so supporting that is important too.

As a total newbie, it has been interesting for me to see why good parts are so important. A freebie Raleigh ("Wow! A Raleigh!") mixte I found leaning against a hedge two weeks ago on trash morning quickly revealed why it *very much* wasn't a collectible when I started to repair it.

The wierd stamped brakes wouldn't *adjust* and I could not see how they ever could have been made to work very well actually. The crank looked kinda like a cottered crank, but it wasn't. The hubs were wierd. And the more I looked, the less I liked and the more I learned why I didn't like what I didn't like. (Before, starting out, I had only worked with Campagnolo, Suntour and Shimano. And, no, I don't wanna talk about the Huret derailleur.)

Paulie Davis Learning slowly in a cooler Los Angeles

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Message: 9 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:23:51 -0700 To: "classicrendezvous-bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> From: Scott Goldstein <sgpnet@earthlink.net> Subject: [CR]Need Help Identifying old Simplex Derailleur

Just got this from a mate in England. Would love to know its age and model name. many thanks

scott

http://www2.sendpix.com/albums/010829/16241400f123c0002d003f7/

---

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Message: 10 From: "kevin weitzel" <kevinsbikes@netzero.net> To: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:40:02 -0700

Tom Ooooh! This is such an easy question (s). If I were an auto collector and had a 1946 Plymouth, I would have a great automobile. True? However, since the acquisition of Plymouth by Chrysler and then a conglomeration of Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, and AMC I would say that there isn't a Plymouth today that has that same mystique or 'history.' I mean, would you consider my Plymouth Breeze a car that offers 'history' as part of the purchase? O.K. I guess if you count the Prowler you may have an arguement but that is not a car for the averagage man/person. I equal this to Waterford. Changing the name and producing high quality bike frames isn't history. Mercedes has changed year after year with innovation after innovation, yet they still have true and well established history. They are still sought after as the/a car to have. When collecting or buying for value, history, or a simple investment... Masi comes to mind. I am sorry, as I don't want to offend a Waterford owner, but Waterford AINT no Masi when it comes to this regard. Fineto'

Kevin Weitzel

---------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

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Message: 11 To: kevinsbikes@netzero.net, feldmanbike@home.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org From: "stevens" <stevens@veloworks.com> Subject: RE: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:51:59 -0700

Are you aware of the history of Waterford?

Waterford WAS the Schwinn Paramount factory for many, many years. When Schwinn went bankrupt (the first time) and was sold to Scott/Zell-Chilmark, Richard Schwinn (the only member of the family still into bikes) and Marc Muller bought the Paramount factory back from the new owners.

Since Schwinn and Paramount were trademarks that now belonged to outside investors, Richard and Marc had to change the name. The factory was in Waterford, Wisconsin ... hence Waterford Precision Cycles.

The 1970s Paramounts (and most especially the 1988 50th Anniversay Paramounts) were built by Marc Muller's group in Waterford. They were forced into a name change, but the history is there.

Anything called a Schwinn Paramount circa post-1994 is not really a Paramount.

The current Waterfords are the only true Paramounts being made ... even if they do have a different name.

For more, check WPC's website at:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com

Pay special attention to:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/hp.htm

>--- Original Message ---
>From: "kevin weitzel" <kevinsbikes@netzero.net>
>To: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com>
>Date: 8/29/01 4:40:02 PM
>
>Tom
> Ooooh! This is such an easy question (s). If I were an auto collector
>and had a 1946 Plymouth, I would have a great automobile. True? However,
>since the acquisition of Plymouth by Chrysler and then a conglomeration of
>Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, and AMC I would say that there isn't
>a Plymouth today that has that same mystique or 'history.' I mean, would
>you consider my Plymouth Breeze a car that offers 'history' as part of the
>purchase? O.K. I guess if you count the Prowler you may have an arguement
>but that is not a car for the averagage man/person. I equal this to
>Waterford. Changing the name and producing high quality bike frames isn't
>history. Mercedes has changed year after year with innovation after
>innovation, yet they still have true and well established history. They are
>still sought after as the/a car to have.
> When collecting or buying for value, history, or a simple investment...
>Masi comes to mind. I am sorry, as I don't want to offend a Waterford
>owner, but Waterford AINT no Masi when it comes to this regard. Fineto'
>
> Kevin Weitzel
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>NetZero Platinum
>Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
>http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>

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Message: 12 From: "Sarah Gibson" <sadiejane9@hotmail.com> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]CR folk at Bike Show in Lost Wages Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:55:37

dale wish i had known this last year. the hotel where we stayed had overbooked so

we were forced to stay in the $2500 a night suites that were six rooms, plenty of room for 20, or 200. it was fun while it lasted. just don't drink the water(at $17.50 a bottle-the same stuff that sells for .99 at the c-store) have fun peace sarah

Sarah Gibson * Old Town Cyclery * Lenexa * Kansas 13440 Sante Fe Trail Lenexa, KS 66215 913 894 5588 913 894 5553 fax http://www.oldtowncyclery.com/ (mapped)

>From: OROBOYZ@aol.com
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]CR folk at Bike Show in Lost Wages
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:29:24 EDT
>
>Last year we had a kinda sorta get together of CR folk and a few others at
>the Las Vegas InterBike which was fun!
>
> I am proposing that we do that again.....I propose we get together on
>Sunday
>night after the InterBike reception, which I think is supposed to be over
>at
>8 PM. I usually get bored at those things and cut out early, so I suggest a
>7:30 PM gathering somewhere.. That's where I am looking for ideas, as I
>have
>little to no knowledge of a suitable restaurant or similar where we can
>gather a presumed group of 20 or more folks.... Last year we hiked up the
>street to a really not-so-hot place, so thoughts on this are needed!
>
>Dale Brown
>Greensboro, North Carolina
>
>_______________________________________________

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Message: 13 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:20:53 -0400 To: classic list <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> From: "Roy H. Drinkwater" <roydrink@mac.com> Subject: Re: RE: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford
>Anything called a Schwinn Paramount circa post-1994 is not really
>a Paramount.
>
>The current Waterfords are the only true Paramounts being made
>... even if they do have a different name.

My addition to this thread:

1. Yesterday, while walking my dog to downtown Lititz, I saw a Mennonite (liberal Amish) guy riding a Paramount (post -94). Made me smile...

2. My iBOB buddy calls me up and says he's bought TWO Waterford frames off of ebay and he's bring them over next week for me to build up.

...small world... ;^)

Roy "already had my chrome Paramount, back in the 80's" Drinkwater Lititz "you should see what the Mennonites do with Bridgestones", PA

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Message: 14 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:37:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Russell roth <fuzzybunnies@pot.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Reply-To: fuzzybunnies@pot.com Subject: [CR]raleigh cyclocross frame

Has anyone seen one of the raleigh cyclocross bikes from around 82. I'm looking for one especially now that the season is about here. Saw one last year in the red/yellow/black team colours and would like to get a hold of one. -Russell Roth

_____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net

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Message: 15 Reply-To: "skip" <cgallegro@best1.net> From: "skip" <cgallegro@best1.net> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:38:05 -0700 Subject: [CR]Simplex Derailuer

Hi, It looks to be a late 1930's Champion Du Monde Extra Leger. I have = one on my 1939 Allegro. Used on 4 spds I believe. Craig "foggy on the = central coast Griffith

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Message: 16 Reply-To: "skip" <cgallegro@best1.net> From: "skip" <cgallegro@best1.net> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:48:00 -0700 Subject: [CR]oops simplex deraileuer

Sorry, I was not correct, how about late 1940's to early 1950's Tour de = France 4spd. It is not like my Champion du monde. Craig "way off" = Griffith

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Message: 17 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:48:49 -0400 To: OROBOYZ@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org From: Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> Subject: Re: [CR]CR folk at Bike Show in Lost Wages

Cousin Dale wrote:
>Last year we had a kinda sorta get together of CR folk and a few others at
>the Las Vegas InterBike which was fun!
>
> I am proposing that we do that again.....I propose we get together on Sunday
>night after the InterBike reception, which I think is supposed to be over at
>8 PM. I usually get bored at those things and cut out early, so I suggest a
>7:30 PM gathering somewhere.. That's where I am looking for ideas, as I have
>little to no knowledge of a suitable restaurant or similar where we can
>gather a presumed group of 20 or more folks.... Last year we hiked up the
>street to a really not-so-hot place, so thoughts on this are needed!

This will be my first trip to Vegas, so I've got no clue. I wonder if they have any decent Mexican restaurants there... ;-)

Sheldon "Tacoholic" Brown Newtonville, Massachusetts +------------------------------------------------------+ | A billion here, a couple of billion there -- | | first thing you know it adds up to be real money. | | --Sen. Everett McKinley Dirksen | +------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772, 617-244-1040, FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com Useful articles about bicycles and cycling http://sheldonbrown.com

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Message: 18 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:13:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Garrison Hilliard <garrison@efn.org> To: krawls <krawls@visuallink.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Stuck stem

h

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, krawls wrote:
> My can is 10 years
> old.

You have wear-dated, replaceable anatomical parts? Cool... but don't you have to break in your saddle after every replacement? ;-)

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Message: 19 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:11:45 -0400 To: classic list <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> From: "Roy H. Drinkwater" <roydrink@mac.com> Subject: [CR]Simplex derailleur

Scott typed:
>Just got this from a mate in England. Would love to know its age
>and model name.
>many thanks
>http://www2.sendpix.com/albums/010829/16241400f123c0002d003f7/

Looks like a Tour de France model of 1946-54. "The Dancing Chain" states:

Simplex changed derailleur names frequently. Identifying and dating Simplex derailleurs vexes today's historians and collectors. Simplex sometimes tacked a number onto the name to denote the year of first manufacture. Dozens of slightly different rear derailleurs were called Champion de Monde (World Champion) or Tour de France."

Roy "Hey, my birthday present came in handy..." Drinkwater Lititz "I love the smell of Proofide in the evening...", PA

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Message: 20 From: RALEIGH531@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:20:12 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]Re: To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

In a message dated 8/29/01 5:59:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rchasteen@kc.rr.com writes:

> Kroil is good as it gets in my experience.
>
>

I've saved more old stuff with Kroil than I can remember. Great on bottom bracket cups. Kroil and Loctite: Better living thru chemistry!!

Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA

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Message: 21 From: OROBOYZ@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:40:48 EDT To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Kroil

In a message dated 8/29/01 9:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RALEIGH531@aol.com writes:

<< Kroil >>

OK, I give up. What is Kroil? What do they say on the can it is to be used for?

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina

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Message: 22 Reply-To: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> To: "kevin weitzel" <kevinsbikes@netzero.net> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:40:50 -0700

Kevin see below:

----- Original Message -----=20 From: "kevin weitzel" <kevinsbikes@netzero.net> To: "Diane Feldman" <feldmanbike@home.com> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:40 PM Subject: RE: [CR]RE: Masi vs. Waterford

> Tom
> Ooooh! This is such an easy question (s). If I were an auto = collector
> and had a 1946 Plymouth, I would have a great automobile. True? =20

Actually no, my parents had one of those when I was a kid and Im old = enough to remember it well. As a functional piece forget it. The 46 = Plymouth as a collectible - well there are many cars Id rather have = before I went there. And for the record I'd much rather own a jeep made = by Chrysler than AMC. I remember a time when the current Maytag = repairman commercials made sense. With the exception of things made by = Microsoft most things dont break very often these days. So, when = function rules most folks would agree modern is better.

However,
> since the acquisition of Plymouth by Chrysler and then a = conglomeration of
> Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep, Eagle, and AMC I would say that there = isn't
> a Plymouth today that has that same mystique or 'history.' I mean,=20

So, are you equating mystique and history with quality, desireability?=20

would you consider my Plymouth Breeze a car that offers 'history' as = part of the purchase? No but history is not of interest to me when Im = making a rational pragmatic decison about reliability, dependability, = etc. O.K. I guess if you count the Prowler you may have an arguement

Dont forget the PT Cruiser. If I had 20 k lying around Id take the bet = that the PT is the Mustang - value wise - 20 years out.
> but that is not a car for the averagage man/person. I equal this to
> Waterford. Changing the name and producing high quality bike frames = isn't
> history. What about Schwinn, if history is important then the lineage = of Waterford as has been pointed out in couple other postings is rather = interesting, eh?=20

and the Mercedes Are you equating Masi to Mercedes? It would seem = Mercedes indeed has history but also has amazing technical/performance = inmprovements. Mercedes gets to charge what they charge because they = deliver it all Masi is after all just a bike. Most postings so far have = stated the new Masi does not equal the old. I cant go there. Dont know. = has changed year after year with innovation after
> innovation, yet they still have true and well established history. = They are
> still sought after as the/a car to have.
> When collecting or buying for value, history, or a simple = investment...
> Masi comes to mind. I am sorry, as I don't want to offend a Waterford
> owner, but Waterford AINT no Masi when it comes to this regard. = Fineto' Actually I came to this question - intended as an "intellectual" one not = specifically to get opinions of Masi vs Waterford but it just so happens = I was in my LBS and was looking at what I thought was a nice clean Masi. = Alongside it on the wall was a Waterford and so a direct comparison of = the physical stuff frame to frame was possible. My mind started to play = with the differences. Fit and finish on the Masi was good - in fact = suspiciously so till I spotted the Ed Litton signature on the left = chainstay and knew I was looking at a repaint. My interest immediately = fell and I was surprised at that. Asked myself whats up here? Clearly = the pure visual appearance stuff wasnt the only thing operating for me. = Looking through the paint at what was visible in the lugs and brazing I = thought why should one buy a Masi for the same price as this Waterford. = There was almost nothing to choose over here. Knowing the Waterford had = history of is own and knowing there would be zero worry about metallurgy = condition under the paint of the waterford vs the 25 year old Masi was a = point. then there was the ease of using modern parts. So I wondered = whats up with the price on this Masi? The rest as they say is history? = Ha. Tom Rawson Oakland, CA

steeped
>=20
> Kevin Weitzel
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------
> NetZero Platinum
> Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
> http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=3Dplatinum&refcd=3DPT97
>=20
> _______________________________________________

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Message: 23 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:51:09 -0700 From: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com> Reply-To: rocklube@adnc.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Kroil

Dale,

Just like it says, it's for oiling krows.

Brian (OK, I'll shut up now) Baylis La Mesa, CA
>
> In a message dated 8/29/01 9:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> RALEIGH531@aol.com writes:
>
> << Kroil >>
>
> OK, I give up. What is Kroil? What do they say on the can it is to be used
> for?
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina
>
> _______________________________________________

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Message: 24 From: RALEIGH531@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:12:40 EDT Subject: Re: [CR]Kroil To: OROBOYZ@aol.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

In a message dated 8/29/01 9:42:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, OROBOYZ@aol.com

writes:

> OK, I give up. What is Kroil? What do they say on the can it is to be used
> for?
>

High quality penetrating oil made by Kano Labs.(they make other products too.) Not sure what's on label.(it's in garage and I'm about 30 secs from bed!)

check out: http://www.kanolabs.com/ The real trick is it's capilary action, finds its way into joints to free them up with out undue violence. Great on rusty car parts and stuck bicycle components that you only have one of and really don't want to screw it up!

Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA

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Message: 25 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:21:49 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Kroil

Aero Kroil... The Oil That Creeps... LOOSENS FROZEN METAL PARTS A scientific discovery reduces the surface tension so that this amazing solvent creeps into openings as small as one millionth of an inch. Wherever there is corrosion -due to heat, salt water, chemical action, or weathering Kroil will loosen metal joints in a few minutes' time, saving labor, equipment and temper. It dissolves gum, dried grease and oil, removes rust and carbon deposits - without attacking the metal - and provides proper lubrication. Resists wetting so prevents rust.

KANO Aerokroil *Loosens the toughest stuck together metal parts or your money back. *No harm to metal or skin...prevents rust. *Use Kroil to loosen nuts, bolts, studs, screws, pulleys, shafts, bearings, guns, pipe threads, valve guides or any corroded metal parts...for lubricating air driven tools...for removing rust, gummed oil and grease...for cleaning cement tools.

DIRECTIONS Remove protecting dome. Point nozzle at the work and push the valve, squirt Kroil as close to the joint as possible; wait a minute before turning depending on the size and condition of the parts.

Order Direct From KANO LABORATORIES (615) 833-4101

Chuck Schmidt SoPas, SoCal

Brian Baylis wrote:
>
> Dale,
>
> Just like it says, it's for oiling krows.
>
> Brian (OK, I'll shut up now) Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> >
> > In a message dated 8/29/01 9:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > RALEIGH531@aol.com writes:
> >
> > << Kroil >>
> >
> > OK, I give up. What is Kroil? What do they say on the can it is to be used
> > for?
> >
> > Dale Brown
> > Greensboro, North Carolina
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________

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_______________________________________________

End of Classicrendezvous Digest