Re: [CR]Pantographed Campy vs 50th anniversary Campy groupo


Example: Events
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Tom Dalton" <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Pantographed Campy vs 50th anniversary Campy groupo
To: garth libre <rabbitman@mindspring.com>
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <002401c146d8$ebfea920$a0b656d1@Marta>


Am I missing something? The pantographed process is time consuming and done at the Ciocc factory, so it has the individual touch of the craftsman. Wouldn't most CR's prefer to pant over the pantograph?

Well, I suppose it is all just a matter of taste, but I'm with you Garth. A full-panto group is far more interesting, particularly if you have the frame for which is was intended. Who hasn't seen many Anniversary groups? Factory panto stuff is unique to each make, and because it was usually installed on a built-up bike, is hard to find in good condition. Anniversary groups were often (usually?) stashed away as collectables, right in the nifty case, and therefore are commonly NOS.

I have a theory about collectables. This is that if something is made specifically to be collected, then it is generally not all that collectable. Obviously this includes anything from the Franklin Mint, but also Beanie Babies, Nascar junk, and, sadly, any recent U.S. stamps. I also include Anniversary groups in this class, despite the fact that they fetch big bucks at the moment. To my eye the group is gaudy, more Vegas than Vicenza....


--- garth libre wrote:


> Today I picked up a $5.00 sweatband for my beloved

\r?\n> at the bike shop. This bike shop sells some classic

\r?\n> stuff. For $1,200.00 you get a beautiful Ciocc in

\r?\n> 56cm blood maroon red and NOS... perfect. It comes

\r?\n> with a black Concour leather saddle, tubular rims

\r?\n> and a complete pantographed Campy- Ciocc groupo. It

\r?\n> has the red, beige and green diamonds with a black

\r?\n> Ciocc "C" on the brake levers and red, green and

\r?\n> beige stripes pantographed on the rest of the

\r?\n> groupo. Cinelli stem and bars, Benotto tape ---

\r?\n> lovely, lovely. It is sitting right next to an up to

\r?\n> the minute Drek something or other for which he is

\r?\n> asking the same price.$1,200 doesn't seem that bad

\r?\n> for an untouched piece of history.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> He is also selling a complete, 50th anniversary NOS

\r?\n> Campy groupo in the box with the certificate card,

\r?\n> and the added titillation is that the bottom bracket

\r?\n> was made in titanium. He claims that $2,500.00 for

\r?\n> this is a great bargain, and that sometimes similar

\r?\n> examples go for as much as 5 grand. Seems hard to

\r?\n> believe that the market could bring that because the

\r?\n> pantographed groupo comes with a complete Ciocc

\r?\n> bike, and the grouppo is prettier to boot. Now he

\r?\n> points to the gold brake bolt and derailleur pivot

\r?\n> and the history and the rarity, and I still like the

\r?\n> pantographed one more, and so would just about any

\r?\n> five year old you brought to the shop too.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Am I missing something? The pantographed process is

\r?\n> time consuming and done at the Ciocc factory, so it

\r?\n> has the individual touch of the craftsman. Wouldn't

\r?\n> most CR's prefer to pant over the pantograph? Garth,

\r?\n> Campy ignorant in Miami, Libre