Re: [CR]Re: Hetchins, Gillots and other fakes

(Example: Production Builders:Tonard)

From: "feldmans" <feldmanbike@yahoo.com>
To: "brucerobbins" <brucerobbins@supanet.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, "Bicycle Classics inc" <bikevint@tiac.net>
References: <3.0.32.20011005173353.006b5528@pop.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Hetchins, Gillots and other fakes
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:42:09 -0700


What keeps the resale price of many fine US custom frames low? I have two guesses. One is that we're a big country and the distribution of many brands is very regional--you probably couldn't get peanuts for an Erickson in San Diego, for instance, or do much better reselling a Sachs in the Northwest. Bill Ward, a man in the Portland, Oregon area who used to have a fine-bike reselling business, sold at least two clean RS frames for around $400--this is within the last five years! Both of the buyers were people who had never heard of Sachs. The other factor is the fad and fashion-based turnover of good bikes, what with techno-infatuation and weight weenieism lots of fine steel has been dumped so that the previous owner could buy a bunch of recycled pop can and/or Tupperware that some famous guy won a bunch of races on! David Feldman


----- Original Message -----
From: Bicycle Classics inc
To: brucerobbins


<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Hetchins, Gillots and other fakes


> Bruce makes some interesting points that I probably agree with in general,
> but I'd like to add some thoughts.
>
> In the word of bicycles, unlike the world of Monet, the original maker
> actually may have had precious little to do with the manufacture of the
> original item in the first place. This is well known for certain makes
> such as Masi. If a maker employes various individuals to build a frame,
> and there are numerous stylistic differences (perhaps subtle) among the
> actual makers, then a reproduction might be more typical of the marques
> original character than a relatively odd example from the original production.
>
> Right now I have a frame that by all accounts came from the Rene Hese shop,
> but it is a clear "funny" example. As I understand it, such frames are not
> uncommon. Yet some Japanese reproductions of Herses (and some bikes from
> other French makers) look more Herse-like than this one.
>
> I think I do understand why reproductions often cost more than originals.
> Its the same reason why folks regularly pay the full retail hit for a
> Waterford frame if they can choose the paint, braze-ons, and assorted
> personal preference details. At the same time, I struggle to sell "stock"
> frames that we have for display. People really like to pay to get the
> details that are important to them. It's hard to do that on an older frame
> - with a new one the options and variations are almost endless.
>
> Now of course, Bruce is right that many original frames are really great
> bargains. I see this most often with American custom frames. The resale
> on many of the great builders finest works are silly low. I see this over
> and over. I've said this for a number of years, the deals on American
> custom frames that come onto the market are unbelievable.
>
> Mike Kone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 11:04 PM 10/5/01 +0100, brucerobbins wrote:
> >The recent debate about precisely who is the real Mr Hetchins and Mr Gillot
> >is, I would submit maybe a bit controversially, totally irrelevant.
> >
> >Whoever is building these frames is not making a Hetchins or Gillot. We
> >should stop attaching so much importance to these replica frames.
> >
> >A chair made by the finest carpenter around and in the style of a
> >Chippendale or Heppelwhite is not a Chippendale or Heppelwhite.
> >
> >A copy of a Monet, indistinguishible to anyone other than an expert, is
> >still a copy.
> >
> >A car plant tooled up to produce a very close copy of a Type 35 Bugatti
> >would be fooling no one.
> >
> >The thing that gets me is that these fakes cost more than the originals! Why
> >would anyone want a copy when they can have the real thing for a lot less,
> >even allowing for the cost of shipping the frame around the world?
> >
> >Look through the classified ads of just about any UK cycling mag and you
> >will find fine examples of these old, original bikes on offer for quite
> >reasonable sums.
> >
> >That's not to say that the replica frames aren't well made. Guys like Clive
> >Rodell would not get involved in producing anything other than an excellent
> >product.
> >
> >However, the frames made today by Brian Bayliss and Richard Sachs and many
> >other fine American-and European-builders have, in my submission, far more
> >integrity than these replicas ever will.
> >
> >Personally, having checked out the McLean marque following recent
> >discussion, I now lust after my first American bike. Got any going cheap,
> >Dale?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>

_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com