Greetings to the List , I have a 11CM Cinelli road stem , old logo , in very nice condition . I would like to trade it for a 12 or 13CM in like condition . Jim , nursing a bad knee , McCoin Fremont Ca. -----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Friday, October 26, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #850 - 10 msgs
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>CR
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: "Last" years for Campagnolo chain hanger dropout bikes? (Marc
Boral)
> 2. Re: Re: Fwd: Masi (Richard M Sachs)
> 3. Re: "Last" years for Campagnolo chain hanger dropout bikes? (Bob
Reid)
> 4. Re: Re: Fwd: Masi (Brian Baylis)
> 5. Regarding the Masi Museum and Pilgrimage (Brian Baylis)
> 6. Re: Help, Need 26" x 1 1/4 tyres (Sheldon Brown)
> 7. Re: Regarding the Masi Museum and Pilgrimage (Richard M Sachs)
> 8. Free Vintage British Bike Screen Saver (Scott Goldstein)
> 9. Re: Steel barrelled Campagnolo hub (Craig Sandvik)
> 10. Re: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #848 - 25 msgs (Herb Langston)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:45:56 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
>From: "Marc Boral" <mbikealive@earthlink.net>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: Re: [CR]"Last" years for Campagnolo chain hanger dropout bikes?
>
>The chain hanger was introduced at the '77 Milan show. My assessment is
>that the frame manufacturers probably initially used the new hanger dropo=
>uts
>(commonly referred to as 1010/B or 7180011right rear) only for the bikes
>that were to carry the hanger. They probably wanted to use up their supp=
>ly
>of existing dropouts before ordering a quantity of the new ones. Once th=
>at
>existing supply of dropouts was used, all the frames incorporated the new
>dropouts, even though they were not slated to receive the hanger. I've s=
>een
>frames up to about '84 still incorporate the hanger dropouts. However, I
>think the hanger dropout (right rear only) was discontinued a year or two
>prior to '84.=0D
>=0D
>I use the rule of thumb: Frames that incorporate the hanger dropout,
>typically can be dated from '77 on.=0D
>=0D
>The framebuilders on this list probably know exactly when the right rear
>hanger dropout was being discontinued by Campy.=0D
>=0D
>Marc Boral =0D
>Long Beach, CA=0D
>=0D
>-------Original Message-------=0D
>=0D
>From: Lee Berg=0D
>Date: Friday, October 26, 2001 8:13:30 AM=0D
>To: classicrendezvous=0D
>Subject: [CR]"Last" years for Campagnolo chain hanger dropout bikes?=0D
>=0D
>How long was the period of appearance in factory production bikes of the=0D
>Campagnolo two-bolt-hole chain hanger short dropout? Did they appear=0D
>for a short, distinct period (e.g., a year or two after introduction=0D
>around 1979) so that a production bike that has these dropouts could be=0D
>dated within a couple of years? Or did they continue to appear on=0D
>production bikes for several years after their introduction?=0D
>=0D
>Lee Berg=0D
>Palo Alto, Calif.=0D
>_______________________________________________=0D
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>To: rocklube@adnc.com
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:00:18 -0400
>Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Fwd: Masi
>From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
>
>there's a fellow nearby and he owns a masi that
>he bought in 1972 at the vigorelli. it has the wide
>section blades.
>'nuff said!
>e-RICHIE
>
>On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:24:45 -0700 Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
>writes:
>> Richie,
>>
>> I did not know there were two versions of that crown dimentionally.
>> I've
>> never seen the version for Columbus blades. I'd like to have one,
>> got
>> any? Anyone else have one? I have a few for old style 531 blades to
>> trade.
>>
>> Brian Baylis
>> La Mesa, CA
>> >
>> > hey!
>> > djoo' know that there were two-plate crowns
>> > for imperial dimension blades, (reynolds 531***),
>> > as well as for continental oval blades, columbus sl/sp)????
>> > e-RICHIE masimaniac
>> > ****say ''five-three-one'' NOT ''five hundred thirty one.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 07:39:25 -0700 Brian Baylis
>> <rocklube@adnc.com>
>> > writes:
>> > > Sterling,
>> > >
>> > > Italian Masis built in 1972 and early 1973 can have twin plate
>> > > crowns.
>> > > It is possible that there were more American built Masis with
>> twin
>> > > plate
>> > > crowns than Italian ones. I have two Italian Masis in the shop
>> right
>> > > now
>> > > that have twin plate crowns. Obviously they exist. I've noticed
>> that
>> > > here are several different approaches to the twin plate crown
>> > > construction amongst the Italian built frames. I imagine it
>> depended
>> > > on
>> > > who built the fork in question.
>> > >
>> > > Brian Baylis
>> > > La Masi, CA
>> > > >
>> > > > Brain, is this true?
>> > > > Sterling PS you can reply to the group
>> > > >
>> > > > >From: "brian blum" <brianblum@hotmail.com>
>> > > > >To: sterlingpeters@hotmail.com
>> > > > >Subject: Masi
>> > > > >Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:28:41
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Sterling,
>> > > > >I believe the twin plate fork crown was only used on American
>> > > Masis, Check
>> > > > >with Brian and Jim. Brian
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:58:52 +0100
>Subject: Re: [CR]"Last" years for Campagnolo chain hanger dropout bikes?
>From: Bob Reid <bob.reid@btconnect.com>
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
>The application for the patent that first introduced these frame ends with
>the two bolt holes first appeared in 1975 (May) and I've got a Guerciotti
>(sadly not mine, happily way too big) that was built in 84' with this type
>end fitted - so in short with that time span I doubt the existance or not,
>would be of much use for dating purposes (+/- a decade)
>
>Off Topic - This Guerciotti must go down at the least subtle "classic" in
>existance. There are more yellow G's, stars and pantographing than I care
to
>count (35 instances, I think it was) I mean - stripes pantographed around
>the brake arms in the national colours ! - Oh and more national flags than
a
>Masi :0 - If that didn't convince you of the bikes origins - it has two
>"stickers" (not decals or transfers) declaring "Made in Italy" !
>
>Best Regards
>
>Bob Reid
>Stonehaven
>Scotland
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:27:56 -0700
>From: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
>Reply-To: rocklube@adnc.com
>To: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Fwd: Masi
>
>Richie,
>
>Isn't there a framebuilder commando organization that will conduct a
>night raid on classic bikes to pilffer exotic bits from frames for a
>fee? I've heard they operate similar to street gangs in big cities; you
>know, steal the fork crown off a bike and leave it sitting on coke
>bottles in the road, only to be discovered by the horrified owner at
>daybreak. Let me know if you have a contact with this group and also how
>much they will nick me for that fork crown.
>
>Brian Baylis
>Leftside Masimaniac
>>
>> there's a fellow nearby and he owns a masi that
>> he bought in 1972 at the vigorelli. it has the wide
>> section blades.
>> 'nuff said!
>> e-RICHIE
>>
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:24:45 -0700 Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
>> writes:
>> > Richie,
>> >
>> > I did not know there were two versions of that crown dimentionally.
>> > I've
>> > never seen the version for Columbus blades. I'd like to have one,
>> > got
>> > any? Anyone else have one? I have a few for old style 531 blades to
>> > trade.
>> >
>> > Brian Baylis
>> > La Mesa, CA
>> > >
>> > > hey!
>> > > djoo' know that there were two-plate crowns
>> > > for imperial dimension blades, (reynolds 531***),
>> > > as well as for continental oval blades, columbus sl/sp)????
>> > > e-RICHIE masimaniac
>> > > ****say ''five-three-one'' NOT ''five hundred thirty one.
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 07:39:25 -0700 Brian Baylis
>> > <rocklube@adnc.com>
>> > > writes:
>> > > > Sterling,
>> > > >
>> > > > Italian Masis built in 1972 and early 1973 can have twin plate
>> > > > crowns.
>> > > > It is possible that there were more American built Masis with
>> > twin
>> > > > plate
>> > > > crowns than Italian ones. I have two Italian Masis in the shop
>> > right
>> > > > now
>> > > > that have twin plate crowns. Obviously they exist. I've noticed
>> > that
>> > > > here are several different approaches to the twin plate crown
>> > > > construction amongst the Italian built frames. I imagine it
>> > depended
>> > > > on
>> > > > who built the fork in question.
>> > > >
>> > > > Brian Baylis
>> > > > La Masi, CA
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Brain, is this true?
>> > > > > Sterling PS you can reply to the group
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >From: "brian blum" <brianblum@hotmail.com>
>> > > > > >To: sterlingpeters@hotmail.com
>> > > > > >Subject: Masi
>> > > > > >Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:28:41
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Sterling,
>> > > > > >I believe the twin plate fork crown was only used on American
>> > > > Masis, Check
>> > > > > >with Brian and Jim. Brian
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > _______________________________________________
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:30:47 -0700
>From: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
>Reply-To: rocklube@adnc.com
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: [CR]Regarding the Masi Museum and Pilgrimage
>
>Fellow listmembers,
>
>I've been meaning to get to this stuff for several days. The hang up is
>that I'm on a framebuilding binge. One thing I need to do is try my best
>to stay away from the computer and the telephone as much as I can. I
>have a few minutes to type so I'll start with the Masi stuff.
>
>Chuck and myself have discussed getting together for a dinner/planning
>session in regards to solidifying a plan to found a Masi Museum here in
>So. Cal. We haven't told Rex Gebhart he is the spearhead just yet but
>that is the plan. I figure since I was instrumental in his making
>contact and forming a relationship with Alberto Masi; he owes me at
>least that much so we can get a toehold in Italy. As I mentioned, I
>would like to see the Masi front room reconstructed as a museum in
>tribute to the Masi marque. It would be absolutely neccessary for a
>contingent to appear in person to pitch the idea to Alberto. I expect
>there to be some competition for the artifacts in the Masi shop, so I
>feel it will be best to present a sincere and organized plan to Alberto.
>Preserving the memory of the Masi name in the US should appeal (and
>hopefully flatter) Alberto to the point of his co-operating with the
>effort. In my fantacy, Alberto is the guest of honor at the didication
>of said museum at Velo Rendezvous III in 2003. As details become
>available, I'll keep the list informed. Anyone who wants to participate
>or contribute to this effort can let me know as they see fit. My
>personal goal is to bring back enough vintage frame tubes and bits from
>the Masi shop at the Vigorelli (with Albertos' blessing) to build two
>replica Masis to hang in the museum. I want to build a track bike using
>Nervex #49 professional lugs and Nervex bb shell like an early Masi
>Special, and a road frame using Nervex #32 lugs and Fisher bb shell and
>oval chainstays. For my own collection I have already assembled all the
>neccessary tubes, lugs, and other parts to build a road and a track
>frame that will be my size(what a shock) and will be in my style of
>today which is an evolution of the Masi "style". The replica frames for
>the museum would be about a 55cm track frame (replica circa 1962) and a
>57cm road frame(replica circa 1969) and not for sale needless to say.
>
>At this time the dinner meeting is just a plan, but when it happens we
>will be setting target dates for our trip and for other issues related
>to the museum.
>
>Stay tuned for messages pertaining to the decal consortium (which has
>already had several developments in a forward direction) and an
>announcement that is relevent to Velo Rendezvous II which may be of
>particular interest to framebuilders or individuals interested in seeing
>how frames used to be build during the "classic era" of framebuilding.
>
>Blabbermouth
>La Mesa, CA
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:43:30 -0400
>To: Scott Goldstein <sgpnet@earthlink.net>,
> "classicrendezvous-bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>From: Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Help, Need 26" x 1 1/4 tyres
>
>At 8:53 AM -0700 10/26/01, Scott Goldstein wrote:
>>Looking for several sets of tires for 1930 Claud Butler and FH Scott
>>with 26 inch wheels.
>>
>>Know any sources?
>
>This 597 mm size is also the same as the Schwinn version of 26 x 1
>3/8. We have decent gumwalls in this size, see:
>http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires.html#597
>
>Sheldon "Tyres" Brown
>+-------------------------------------------------------+
>| Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. |
>| --Theodore Roosevelt |
>+-------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
>Phone 617-244-9772, 617-244-1040, FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com
> Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
> http://sheldonbrown.com
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>To: rocklube@adnc.com
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:29:32 -0400
>Subject: Re: [CR]Regarding the Masi Museum and Pilgrimage
>From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
>
>serving any masi wine?
>e-RICHIE
>
>On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:30:47 -0700 Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
>writes:
>> Fellow listmembers,
>>
>> I've been meaning to get to this stuff for several days. The hang up
>> is
>> that I'm on a framebuilding binge. One thing I need to do is try my
>> best
>> to stay away from the computer and the telephone as much as I can. I
>> have a few minutes to type so I'll start with the Masi stuff.
>>
>> Chuck and myself have discussed getting together for a
>> dinner/planning
>> session in regards to solidifying a plan to found a Masi Museum here
>> in
>> So. Cal. We haven't told Rex Gebhart he is the spearhead just yet
>> but
>> that is the plan. I figure since I was instrumental in his making
>> contact and forming a relationship with Alberto Masi; he owes me at
>> least that much so we can get a toehold in Italy. As I mentioned, I
>> would like to see the Masi front room reconstructed as a museum in
>> tribute to the Masi marque. It would be absolutely neccessary for a
>> contingent to appear in person to pitch the idea to Alberto. I
>> expect
>> there to be some competition for the artifacts in the Masi shop, so
>> I
>> feel it will be best to present a sincere and organized plan to
>> Alberto.
>> Preserving the memory of the Masi name in the US should appeal (and
>> hopefully flatter) Alberto to the point of his co-operating with the
>> effort. In my fantacy, Alberto is the guest of honor at the
>> didication
>> of said museum at Velo Rendezvous III in 2003. As details become
>> available, I'll keep the list informed. Anyone who wants to
>> participate
>> or contribute to this effort can let me know as they see fit. My
>> personal goal is to bring back enough vintage frame tubes and bits
>> from
>> the Masi shop at the Vigorelli (with Albertos' blessing) to build
>> two
>> replica Masis to hang in the museum. I want to build a track bike
>> using
>> Nervex #49 professional lugs and Nervex bb shell like an early Masi
>> Special, and a road frame using Nervex #32 lugs and Fisher bb shell
>> and
>> oval chainstays. For my own collection I have already assembled all
>> the
>> neccessary tubes, lugs, and other parts to build a road and a track
>> frame that will be my size(what a shock) and will be in my style of
>> today which is an evolution of the Masi "style". The replica frames
>> for
>> the museum would be about a 55cm track frame (replica circa 1962)
>> and a
>> 57cm road frame(replica circa 1969) and not for sale needless to
>> say.
>>
>> At this time the dinner meeting is just a plan, but when it happens
>> we
>> will be setting target dates for our trip and for other issues
>> related
>> to the museum.
>>
>> Stay tuned for messages pertaining to the decal consortium (which
>> has
>> already had several developments in a forward direction) and an
>> announcement that is relevent to Velo Rendezvous II which may be of
>> particular interest to framebuilders or individuals interested in
>> seeing
>> how frames used to be build during the "classic era" of
>> framebuilding.
>>
>> Blabbermouth
>> La Mesa, CA
>> _______________________________________________
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:38:08 -0700
>To: "classicrendezvous-bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>From: Scott Goldstein <sgpnet@earthlink.net>
>Subject: [CR]Free Vintage British Bike Screen Saver
>
>I've made screen saver of about 20 vintage images. It's virus free and
>available as an .exe file from my website. Note: it's a little over 2 megs
>so either have a fast connect of a lot of patience!
>
>Please let me know what you think
>
>www.goldsteinproductions.com/BritishBike.exe
>
>
>
>
>scott
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.291 / Virus Database: 156 - Release Date: 10/25/2001
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Craig Sandvik <distracticon@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [CR]Re: Steel barrelled Campagnolo hub
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>Bruce Robbins wrote:
>> Chuck's suggestion of using a torch to heat
>> the alloy flanges to make separation easier
>> raised one or two eyebrows. It was suggested that
>> this could make the alloy very brittle if not done
>> carefully. A better solution, I was told, would be
>> dipping the hub in a hot oil bath.
>
>Boiling oil? Blowtorches? Are the Vikings storming the
>castle again?
>
>Seriously, a propane torch should work fine if done
>carefully so you don't heat the aluminum beyond
>the point where water (or spit) sizzles when it
>touches the metal. This technique also allows you
>to heat the part while it's clamped in the vise,
>instead of worrying about how you'll clamp the
>barrel while the hub is still hot. You might want
>to use wood strips between the vise jaws and
>the flange, so the heat doesn't drain into
>the vise.
>
>--
>Craig Sandvik
>Berkeley, CA
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:05:15 -0500
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>From: Herb Langston <langston@interaccess.com>
>Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #848 - 25 msgs
>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:25:32 -0500
>>Subject: [CR]Motobecane or what?
>>
>>I have my new mystery french frame home from the shop after emergency sur=
>>gery to remove a stuck stem and chase out the steerer threads.
>>
>> Seat tube is 26.4 mm, BB shell and pedal holes on cranks are french thre=
>>aded. Lug work is roughly finished. Lugs are smooth edged with short po=
>>ints on top, large spoons on the underside of the tubes. No sign of head=
>> badge rivet holes. Tubing is seamless, the steerer is seamless and unri=
>>fled, and the entire frame is fairly light. Bottom bracket has no brand =
>>mark, but has a large ugly longitudinal seam on the bottom, along with a =
>>small drain hole. Mitering seems adequate, although the down tube protru=
>>des 1/2 and inch into the bb.
>
>It could possibly be a mid- to late-80s Motobecane, which looked they were
>brazed by monkeys. My '77 Moto has a 26mm seat tube, SWISS-threaded BB (as
>were all early Motobecanes), riveted headbadge, nicely finished Bocama
>lugs, Vagner fork crown, and decent mitering. Seat stays/seat tube junction
>is really nice. It's a mid-range bike (Super Mirage) and it's a little on
>the heavy side.
>
>Can't remember what the original dropout were, since I bent mine and had to
>have new ones (Campy touring) welded in, but I'm sure they were not
>Simplex. I've never seen a Moto with Simplex parts or components- they were
>either Huret, Campy or SunTour (later ones used Shimano).
>
>I'd guess you have a 1980's Peugeot, or maybe a Gitane, that may have had
>additional braze-ons added prior to the repaint.
>
>Herb Langston
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>End of Classicrendezvous Digest