Bingo, Gilbert! I have a similar tenure in bike retail and can attest to many factory-packed parts and bikes showing disappointing wear out of the package. I'd venture a guess that there's much cosmetically worn NOS French equipment because of their minimal packaging--Huret plastic-bagged derailleurs, for instance. David Feldman
> Hello gang,
>
> I must say that the comment (by Fred) below makes since but as far as
> packaged parts are concerned, many top flight components are not packaged
> well enough from the factory or by suppliers to qualify for Mark's 2 or
3rd
> level from the top as new! Shall we say shop worn out of the box.
>
> My shop experience over the last 30 odd years also indicates that almost
no
> production bike has ever meet the standard of Mint+++ (IMHO) and most
would
> fall several levels below that as new as well.
>
> Having said this exceptions must abound. The best production bike I have
> ever seen out of the box (and it's not a real production machine in the
> classic sense) was a Ross Signature racing and Touring bike by Mr. Tommy
> Kellogg now of Spectrum Cycles. As many list members know this was really
a
> fine hand built bike from a production company. The paint, assembly and
> packaging were superb. Most people (builders) concerned about their work
are
> very careful in this regards as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gilbert Anderson
> Raleigh, NC USA
>
> In a message dated 11/26/01 5:11:38 PM, fred_rednor@yahoo.com writes:
>
> << > You don't spend rare coins and you don't post
> > mail with rare stamps. If a part is shopworn and also
> > listed as mint, it will still perform its function as
> > if it just arrived from the factory.
> Richard,
> If coins/stamps aren't related closely enough to bicycles
> for your tastes, how about cameras? In fact, I'm sure I was
> on a camera auction Web site when I noticed the rating system
> that I think would best apply to classic bicycle stuff.
> In that system (as with every system I've seen used to
> seriously grade a collectable item) Mint meant unused and
> essentially perfect cosmetically. NIB is a specialization
> of Mint - i.e. unused and in the original packaging. There
> was a Near Mint category for items that are unused but with
> _very_ mild blemishes. I suppose that the Simplex derailleur
> which prompted this discussion would be considered Near Mint.
> No doubt a shop worn but unused item will function as
> well as a cosmetically perfect one. But cosmetic damage
> (that's what shop wear is) reduces the value of any item.
> Otherwise why should a manufacturer even bother to package
> items like cranksets so as to prevent scratches during
> transit?
> Best regards,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
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