As Bob Reid stated some of the comments are mildly offensive (from a Uk perspective to some folks) and are somewhat politically off the CR lists focus.
I think for this list the discussion of tax , freight and customs and related issues are very appropriate as they reflect the true cost of aquiring the items we cherish domestically and overseas.
I think Brian Corpus(sic?) and Steve Neago(below) may be overstating the ripoff argument on the 50th Anne groupo and Brooks Saddle sale potentially. I was not there and have no actual reference. I travel to the UK every year on buying trips and speak with dealers and manufacturers all over.
First (as I understand it and I am no expert, Bob Reid may have insight here that he might share as a UK merchant) is that the price of items in the United Kingdom have the VAT (Value Added Tax of 17.5%) added to but calculated in the final price of the goods.
So a Brooks Saddle listed for sale or tagged in a store of £50.00 pounds sterling has the VAT tax included in the £50.00 figure. In our store a Brooks saddle of $75.00 will have 6.5% (new North Carolina tax rate to pay for past distasters in our region) sales tax added on top ($3.38 sales tax) for a total price paid $78.38 by the consumer.
Gilbert "Over Paid and Under Taxed" Anderson
RAleigh, NC USA And now the great contrerversy over the Ebay Paypal $3.00 surcharge by Walt; where will it end?
In a message dated 12/9/01 9:10:05 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
<< I believe that discussions such as this are valid for discussion on the CR.
I once had the experience of trying to order a vintage part for an English
dealer via a search engine query. The dealer tried to add the VAT, even
though I explained that I am American and he was sending to a USA address.
The English dealer (name protected to prevent them from embarassment) quoted
me a price for a Brooks Pro seat and then tried to add on the VAT at the
last moment as they tried to assume the sale. I was prepared for this
possibility because I knew that the VAT does not apply to overseas
purchases. When I protested and asked the VAT not be included, they
declined to sell me the item with their last minute 17% markup in the total
The bottom line is that the CR helps to teach its members about all things
that are bicycle classics, and learning about the VAT helps prepare
inexperienced members for some of the challenges they face with unethical
I believe this CR discussion is worth pursuing...
Regards, Steve Neago
"Silent in Cincinnati, OH"
From: "Bob Reid" <email@example.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: VAT and other evils (OT)
> I thought this was a Classic bike list and that totally OT, sarcastic,
> mildly offensive, and poorly researched (we stopped paying the poll tax
> years ago) comments such as these were not acceptable or has Dale written
> new set of rules?
> > From: Garrison Hilliard <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:05:55 -0800 (PST)
> > To: Hugh Thornton <email@example.com>
> > Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Re: VAT and other evils (OT)
> > On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Hugh Thornton wrote:
> >> ripped off at the 17.5% rate that the Brits do. But the Brits will put
> >> with anything and pride themselves on their stoicism.
> > Including the Poll Tax and TV Permits!
> > p.s. Really, folks... don't you miss the Empire?
> Bob Reid
> Scotland (where the word "brit" is reserved for Geri Haliwell types,
> newspapers and magazines with as much intelligent content as the National
> Enquirer, and by people with no sense of national identity)