[CR]Re: Evolution of diamond frame

(Example: Production Builders)

From: "Phil" <pdscott@gte.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <CATFOODoV1qdiixjnzi000005b2@catfood.nt.phred.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:53:17 -0500
Subject: [CR]Re: Evolution of diamond frame

REPLY TO YOUR MESSAGE BELOW:
> Message: 2
> From: "Colin McFerran" <cmcferran@optusnet.com.au>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:08:15 +1000
> Subject: [CR]Re: 80 Years of Evolution
>
> This is my first post on the list and I am new to the 'Classic' scene.
>
> I am interested in finding out about how the diamond frame has evolved =
> in the period covered by the list. In particular, how frame geometry has =
> changed and frame weight decreased. The significant milestones and the =
> people involved. I realise that this is too big a topic to address on =
> the list(?)
> but am hoping that some of you can suggest some reading material or =
> other places on the net.
>
> Thank you
>
> Colin McFerran
> Brisbane-Australia
> looking forward to=20

I think the dimond frame has evolved very little from the mid 1890's. The companies of that era were alot more competive because of over saturation of the bicycle industry and of how popular racing was. Major Taylor rode a 14 1/2 lb. bicycle in the late 1890's made by Royal Worcester Cycles.The diamond frame bicycle of that day was light and sturdy, many examples still
present and rideable.
Phil Scott
Clayton,Ohio


----- Original Message -----
From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #976 - 27 msgs



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>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: rebuilding classic MA-40 wheel (Sheldon Brown)
> 2. Re: 80 Years of Evolution (Colin McFerran)
> 3. Re: Re: 80 Years of Evolution (Chuck Schmidt)
> 4. Re: Another Expensive Old Part on E-bay - now early
> Stronglight 49D (Hilary Stone)
> 5. Re: Hillary's track frame- NERVEX PRO LUGS?/ Hercules 3 speed
> hub (Hilary Stone)
> 6. RE: Another Expensive Old Part on E-bay - now early Stronglig
> ht 49D (Mark Bulgier)
> 7. Front Campagnolo Brake wanted -UK based (Stewart Barrie)
> 8. interesting photos (Jamie Swan)
> 9. Schwinn grips and paramount sleeves (Phil)
> 10. RE: Re: 80 Years of Evolution (Dave Patrick)
> 11. Sno Bol old galvanized steel bike parts (scott davis)
> 12. Re: rebuilding classic MA-40 wheel (John Everett)
> 13. For Sale! Italian Made Victoria CX tubulars (Sterling Peters)
> 14. Re: WTB Regina Oro, No way, Regina Titanium! (CYCLESTORE@aol.com)
> 15. Re: Re: 80 Years of Evolution (Skip Echert)
> 16. (Cr) Stronglight Crank Tool (CYCLESTORE@aol.com)
> 17. Cinelli Registry (Mark Petry)
> 18. Re: (Cr) Stronglight Crank Tool (Chris Beyer)
> 19. RE: Wanted: Yellow 80's Bottle Cages (WmLBoston@aol.com)
> 20. Re: Another Expensive Old Part on E-bay - now
> earlyStronglight 49D (Bicycle Classics inc)
> 21. columbia/pope on eBay (Jack Bissell)
> 22. Re: columbia/pope on eBay (nath)
> 23. cloning a hub... (dave)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:44:50 -0500
> To: "garth libre" <rabbitman@mindspring.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> From: Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR]rebuilding classic MA-40 wheel
>
> At 10:35 PM -0500 12/12/01, garth libre wrote:
> >I keep on breaking spokes on the drive side and the non drive side
> >of my training clinchers. The rims are MA-40 Mavics and the hub is
> >Suntour Superbe Pro. It is 36 spoke, cross 3 and 12 gauge spokes.
> >The spokes snap at the hub bend during a heavy sprint. The wrench
> >here, says that for a strongish (glowing me) rider of around 160
> >lbs, the rear wheel requires better than 12 gauge, no matter how
> >smooth the roads are. He wants to rebuild using double butted
> >14-12-14 gauge also cross 3. He also says that straight 12 gauge is
> >for weight weenies, not the real world. I am ashamed to say that I
> >thought all along that the higher number is the lighter wire (not
> >the other way around). This wrench is Spanish only speaking, and my
> >Spanish is only fair. Is his advise on the money? Garth Libre
> >Surfside Fl
>
> From my Bicycle Glossary:
>
> Gauge
>
> A measurement of thickness, particularly of wire. The major use of
> gauges in bicycle technology is for spokes. There are several
> different national systems of gauge sizes, and this has been a great
> cause of confusion. A particular problem is that French gauge
> numbers are smaller for thinner wires, while the U.S./British gauge
> numbers are larger for thinner wires. The crossover point is right in
> the popular range of sizes used for bicycle spokes:
>
> U.S./British 14 gauge is the same as French 13
> gauge
> U.S./British 13 gauge is the same as French 15
> gauge
>
> Newer I.S.O. practice is to ignore gauge numbers, and refer to
> spokes by their diameter in millimeters:
>
> U.S./British 13 gauge is 2.3 mm
> U.S./British 14 gauge is 2.0 mm
> U.S./British 15 gauge is 1.8 mm
> U.S./British 16 gauge is 1.6 mm
>
> Sheldon "http://sheldonbrown.com/glossary" Brown
> Newtonville, Massachusetts
> +--------------------------------------------------------+
> | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, |
> | they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, |
> | they do not refer to reality. --Albert Einstein |
> +--------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772, 617-244-1040, FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com
> Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
> http://sheldonbrown.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Colin McFerran" <cmcferran@optusnet.com.au>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:08:15 +1000
> Subject: [CR]Re: 80 Years of Evolution
>
> This is my first post on the list and I am new to the 'Classic' scene.
>
> I am interested in finding out about how the diamond frame has evolved =
> in the period covered by the list. In particular, how frame geometry has =
> changed and frame weight decreased. The significant milestones and the =
> people involved. I realise that this is too big a topic to address on =
> the list(?)
> but am hoping that some of you can suggest some reading material or =
> other places on the net.
>
> Thank you
>
> Colin McFerran
> Brisbane-Australia
> ooking forward to=20
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:54:23 -0800
> From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: 80 Years of Evolution
>
> Colin McFerran wrote:
> >
> > This is my first post on the list and I am new to the 'Classic' scene.
> >
> > I am interested in finding out about how the diamond frame has evolved in the period covered by the list. In particular, how frame geometry has changed and frame weight decreased. The significant milestones and the people involved. I realise that this is too big a topic to address on the list(?)
> > but am hoping that some of you can suggest some reading material or other places on the net.
>
>
>
> I'd recommend two books:
>
> The Bicycle Frame by Joe Kossak
> The Custom Bicycle by Michael J. Kolin & Denise M. de la Rosa
>
> The Kossak book covers frame trends and was written in the mid 1970s, so
> barely touches carbon and titanium with the Graftek and the Teledyne Titan.
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, Southern California
> http://www.velo-retro.com (10% off reprints and three T-shirts for the
> price of two during December)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:55:58 +0000
> Subject: Re: [CR]Another Expensive Old Part on E-bay - now early
> Stronglight 49D
> From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: <Huemax@aol.com>, <wayofftheback@hotmail.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> I must admit I am surprised that this chainset has gone so high but it is
> very sweet.. However it is not a straight Stronglight 49D chainset. The
> rings are some special ones whether these are made by Stronglight or someone
> else I am not certain. They do not appear to be the standard pattern
> Stronglight 49D ring but I am not really certain what an early double ring
> should look like. I have plenty of illustrations of early Stronglight 49D
> chainsets right back to 1938 - 49 in this case does not indicate year of
> introduction. Stronglight did make some special rings for at least one
> French manuafacturer, Caminargent. I have pictures of the single rings made
> for Caminargent but none of doubles and these do appear to have some similar
> characteristics.
>
> Regards
>
> Hilary Stone, its dark now at 7.30 in the morning, Bristol
>
>
> KEN TODA wrote:
>
> >
> > It is an interesting ebay auction.
> >
> > <http://ebay.com/<blah
> >
> > 1) Bikenut (Matthew Gorski) and ex-member Ken Denny are among bidders (22
> > bids).
> >
> > 2) Among those US bidder, all rest are Japanese bidders.
> >
> > 3) Seller says as of 660.00 the "Reserve Not Met", how mauch he wants???
> >
> > 4) I think those "French" parts are way overheated, what is so great about
> > this??
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:01:28 +0000
> Subject: Re: [CR]Hillary's track frame- NERVEX PRO LUGS?/ Hercules 3 speed
> hub
> From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: feldman <feldmanbike@yahoo.com>,
> brian blum <brianblum@hotmail.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> I have now checked my lug catalogues and exactly this same pattern is listed
> both in the Nervex list and the Prugnat list - I was careless in calling
> them Nervex Pro, David is quite right that they are one of the patterns of
> Nervex Legere lug. Prugnat simply uses a number. The Nervex Pro pattern is
> also included in the Prugnat catalogue I have. I will add the correction to
> my auction.
>
> Regards
>
> Hilary
>
>
> David Feldman wrote:
> > If you look at the Velo-Retro Nervex catalog reprint, the pattern on that
> > Tommy Godwin bike is available. Last year I bought several sets of those
> > lugs from Ceeway and they were sold as "Nervex Legere." Question for the
> > veteral framebuilders and restorers on the list: Were Nervex and Prugnat
> > ever parts of the same company? Any personnel in common?
> >
>
>
>
> Brian Blum wrote:
> >> I noticed that the track bike frame Hilliary is auctioning on EBAY has the
> >> same lugs as my late 50's Hobbs Blue Riband. Hilliary says they are Nervex
> >> Pro. They look very different from the two variations I have seen in the
> >> past, the Paramount style and the Motobecane Jubile Style.
> >> Can anyone confirm the type? The EBAY item # is 1046473311
> >>
> > http://ebay.com/<blah>
> > owTutorial=0&ed=1008559260&indexURL=0&rd=1
> >>
> >>
> >> The other question I have which Sheldon probably knows is regarding 3
> > speed
> >> hubs. A friend of mine has a Hercules with a hub that looks to be SA but
> >> says it was made by the Hercules Manufacturing Co. on it's shell, is this
> >> made under license from SA? An aside, does anyone have or know where to
> > get
> >> white Schwinn hand grips and brake lever sleeves.
> >>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: RE: [CR]Another Expensive Old Part on E-bay - now early Stronglig
> ht 49D
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:12:44 -0800
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> Yes I think it is sweet too, but am I alone in being bothered that the rings
> aren't bolted to the arm in the symmetric orientation? There are 5 ways to
> bolt the rings to the arm, only one of which has the three bolt pattern
> symmetric about the arm.
>
> I've also noticed three different BSA cranksets on ebay lately, none of
> which were bolted together "right" by this standard. There are the three
> arms that spell out "BSA", and two plain arms. Shouldn't the two plain arms
> be the ones adjacent the crank, with the B-S-A symmetric about the crank?
>
> Yes I know how picky I'm being. If you think this predilection of mine is
> due to an overly-strict potty training or some such, feel free to... keep it
> to yourself! ;)
>
> Mark Bulgier
> Seattle, Wa
> USA
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Stewart Barrie" <sbarrie@bellefield.worldonline.co.uk>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:00:02 -0000
> Subject: [CR]Front Campagnolo Brake wanted -UK based
>
> Hi Guys
>
> I'm looking for a standard (non compact) front Campag Record brake caliper
> for my fixed. This can be complete or as little as the bare caliper as I've
> got a couple of old brakes I can cannibalize.
>
> I'm also looking for a campag brake lever body or old complete lever which I
> can mount on the bars as my frame only takes a front brake.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Stewart
> London, UK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com>
> Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR] New items on Ebay
>
>
> > Almost all Sturmey hubs prior to about 1980 are 110mm OLD though can be
> > stretched with spacers to about 115mm. Sturmey did make longer axles
> > including one for the TF but they are very uncommon except for use with
> > tandems.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Hilary
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hilary or anyone else, is there an OLD one can assume for older S/A
> > > hubs? The one you mention below
> > >
> > > http://ebay.com/<blah>
> > >
> > > is, according to
> > >
> > > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html#tf
> > >
> > > from the 1930's.
> > >
> > > 110mm?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Steve Freides
> > > 5'7-1/2" short, er, tall
> > > 150 lbs.
> > > Black Hair
> > > Brown Eyes
> > > Always Sunny Disposition
> > >
> > >
> > > Hilary Stone wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I've put a whole lot of new items up on Ebay - Sturmey 2-speed fixed
> gear,
> > >> the Tommy Godwin track frame that didn't sell here, Constrictor 27in
> rims, a
> > >> Campagnolo Pista chainset, Chater-Lea pedals and pre-war Chater-Lea
> > >> chainset, Cinelli steel road bars, Cinelli badged steel stem, a pair of
> the
> > >> very early Campagnolo brake callipers, a very pretty Nervar chainset
> and a
> > >> NOS Cyclo standard gear with twist grip control.
> > >>
> > >> The easiest way to view what I have on sale is via the seller's list
> > >>
> http://ebay.com/<blah
> s
> > >> erid=hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:55:24 -0500
> From: Jamie Swan <jswan@optonline.net>
> To: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]interesting photos
>
> Hi Gang,
> I finally got around to putting up an "About Me" page on Ebay:
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
> you might enjoy. If the link doesn't work my user name is jamieswan.
> Jamie Swan, Northport, New York.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Phil" <pdscott@gte.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:16:17 -0500
> Subject: [CR]Schwinn grips and paramount sleeves
>
> George Fox of Fox Grips has the Schwinn grips and rmade the paramount =
> grips that slide on for old track bikes.
> Fox Grips.937-837-8783
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Reply-To: <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
> From: "Dave Patrick" <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: RE: [CR]Re: 80 Years of Evolution
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:51:53 -0500
>
> I would also think that the following might be of interest:
>
> Bicycling Science - in print and can be ordered at most bookstores. There is
> a good section on frames in here
>
> Bicycles & Tricycles - MIT Press reprint of late 1800's text. Out of print
> unfortunately and hard to find.
>
>
> Both of the texts that Chuck listed are also out of print, although I
> believe Chuck has the Kossak text available as a reprint in a larger
> compilation.
>
>
> Dave Patrick
> Chelsea, Michigan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Schmidt
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:54 AM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: 80 Years of Evolution
>
>
> Colin McFerran wrote:
> >
> > This is my first post on the list and I am new to the 'Classic' scene.
> >
> > I am interested in finding out about how the diamond frame has evolved in
> the period covered by the list. In particular, how frame geometry has
> changed and frame weight decreased. The significant milestones and the
> people involved. I realise that this is too big a topic to address on the
> list(?)
> > but am hoping that some of you can suggest some reading material or other
> places on the net.
>
>
>
> I'd recommend two books:
>
> The Bicycle Frame by Joe Kossak
> The Custom Bicycle by Michael J. Kolin & Denise M. de la Rosa
>
> The Kossak book covers frame trends and was written in the mid 1970s, so
> barely touches carbon and titanium with the Graftek and the Teledyne Titan.
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, Southern California
> http://www.velo-retro.com (10% off reprints and three T-shirts for the
> price of two during December)
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:39:39 -0800 (PST)
> From: scott davis <francopedia@yahoo.com>
> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Sno Bol old galvanized steel bike parts
>
> A local frame builder suggested cleaning old
> glavanized steel parts in a container of Sno Bol
> toilet bowl cleaner--available in grocery stores. I
> tried it and it works great. Just don't soak it too
> long or the parts might disappear. I soaked some rusty
> old bolts for about 20 to 30 minutes and they looked
> like new. After cleaning, he said, you must spray
> parts with WD-40 or Boeing T-9, etc. to prevent
> rusting. When I finished I flushed the Sno Bol down
> the toilet. What's in this stuff??? And why is it
> blue??? Scott back to winter in St. Paul, MN.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: "John Everett" <jeverett@wwa.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:48:52 -0600
> Subject: Re: [CR]rebuilding classic MA-40 wheel
>
> > Gauge
> >
> > A measurement of thickness, particularly of wire. The major use of
> > gauges in bicycle technology is for spokes. There are several
> > different national systems of gauge sizes, and this has been a great
> > cause of confusion.
>
> It's my understanding that the origin of wire gauge sizes (at least
> U.S./English) is from a standard hole in a piece of metal (the
> gauge). If one could pass 15 strands of a certain size wire through
> the "gauge", that was 15 gauge wire. If only 12 strands could fit
> through, that was 12 gauge. Thus the higher the number the
> smaller the wire.
>
> I have no idea where French gauge sizes came from.
>
> Being cognizant of Dale's recent admonition that hometown should
> be included, I'm in Aurora, Illinois. I don't have that in my signature,
> nor do I plan to add it.
>
>
>
>
> jeverett@wwa.com (John V. Everett)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: "Sterling Peters" <sterlingpeters@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:01:46 -0800
> Subject: [CR]For Sale! Italian Made Victoria CX tubulars
>
> I have two pair of New Old Stock( never used ) Italian made Victoria CX
> tubulars. One tire out of the 4 has a little of the latex missing (because
> of rubbing against other tires in storage) on the sidewall. Two of the tires
> were stored on rims that had some glue on them , so a little has transferred
> to the rim tape ( this included the tire with a little latex missing ). This
> pair I will sell for $160 with a guarantee that if you are not satisfied you
> can send them back for a full refund. The second pair I will sell for $175
> with the same guarantee. I have to give Richard Sachs the first place in
> line if he is interested , because he asked me about them before ,and I have
> finally decided to part with them.
> Thanks, Sterling
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: CYCLESTORE@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:02:31 EST
> Subject: Re: [CR]WTB Regina Oro, No way, Regina Titanium!
> To: Roadgiant@cs.com
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> Scott,
>
> Why be saddled with the inherent inefficiencies of steel when you can move
> into a new level of performance and handling with a Regina 5 Speed Titanium
> freewheel instead. Oro might be a great name for a bike shop but in
> freewheels my NOS Vintage titanium cogged Regina beauty 13x19 in box that
> might fetch twice or three times as much on E-bay to that guy in Japan
> bidding old French cranks up over six bills. A special price to you (or any
> interested party) is just $175.95 plus insured postage.
>
> Verrry Sexxxxeh corncob styling as well.
>
> Makes a great Hanukah gift or Christmas tree dangler too.
>
> Yours in cycling,
>
> Gilbert Anderson
>
> The North Road Bicycle Company
> your bicycle outfitter
> 519 W. North St.
> Raleigh, NC 27603
> USA
> ph toll free in USA :800/321-5511
> Local ph: 919/828-8999
> E-Mail: cyclestore@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 12/12/01 9:28:53 PM, Roadgiant@cs.com writes:
>
> << Hey all,
> I'm looking for a Regina Oro 5 speed freewheel if anyone has one they
> want to part with. Also, I've just become the happy owner of a Masi Gran
> Criterium. Charles and I think it is from 1974. The numbers on the BB are
> 679.
> Thanks.
>
>
> Scott Smith
> LA >>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:01:57 -0800
> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> From: Skip Echert <sechert@sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: 80 Years of Evolution
> Cc: "Colin McFerran" <cmcferran@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Hello Colin -
>
> Interesting topic! I think you will find that by going back a few more
> years, to about 1890, the topic becomes more complex. During the late
> 1800s the improving the bicycle was a subject of MUCH development, by some
> of the best and the brightest of the day. Patent activity was
> extensive. Racing bicycles weighing in at 12 lbs were made (but probably
> not stiff by today's standards). Many of the advances in frame shape and
> material we think of as "modern" were actually tried during this early
> period.
>
> If you start in 1920, you will see "advances" that were actually recycled
> (pardon the pun) from this earlier period. The improvements (decreases in
> weight, increases in stiffness) from 1920 will be slow and more linear for
> two reasons. 1. much of what would work and not work had been sorted out
> earlier, and 2. the hot topic, the one that got the major engineering
> emphasis, was cars.
>
> I second Dave Patrick's suggestion of "Bicycling Science" and am happy to
> learn it is still in print. My copy (if I could find it) must be 25 years old.
>
> Have fun with your project!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Skip Echert
> Renton, WA (biking indoors today - rain, rain, rain)
>
>
>
> At 11:08 PM 12/12/01, you wrote:
> >This is my first post on the list and I am new to the 'Classic' scene.
> >
> >I am interested in finding out about how the diamond frame has evolved in
> >the period covered by the list. In particular, how frame geometry has
> >changed and frame weight decreased. The significant milestones and the
> >people involved. I realise that this is too big a topic to address on the
> >list(?)
> >but am hoping that some of you can suggest some reading material or other
> >places on the net.
> >
> >Thank you
> >
> >Colin McFerran
> >Brisbane-Australia
> >ooking forward to
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> From: CYCLESTORE@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:11:04 EST
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR](Cr) Stronglight Crank Tool
>
> Hello gand,
>
> A little while back I posted a not that I might have several Stronglight old
> Style (#93 fit 23.35 mm) crank extractors in my stash. Well, after an
> exhaustive search and running up a big phone bill overseas I have exhausted
> my supply of patience to locate more at the present time.
>
> Thanks to all the people requesting this item, I'm afraid it's off to E-bay
> for you.
>
> I will dutifully post the availability of this item and be more diligent next
> time in sourcing this item as it is reportedly discontinued by Stronglight
> and Var as well though stock must be around.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gilbert Anderson
> North Road Bicyle Company
> Ralelgh, NC USA
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 17
> From: "Mark Petry" <mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:26:30 -0800
> Subject: [CR]Cinelli Registry
>
> Thanks for all the Cinelli serial number info. See the current state of =
> the Cinelli Registy at=20
>
> http://www.petry.org/markp/cinolog.htm
>
> To add YOUR Cinelli to this list, send an email to =
> mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net with the words "CINELLI PROJECT" in the =
> subject line.=20
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Mark Petry 206 618 9642
> mailto:mpetry@bainbridgeisland.net
> Beautiful Bainbridge Island=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Most of american life is spent driving
> somewhere and then coming home, wondering
> why the hell you went.
>
> John Updike, "Rabbit at Rest"
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:35:37 -0500
> From: Chris Beyer <beyerc@mail.volvo.com>
> To: CYCLESTORE@aol.com,
> classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR](Cr) Stronglight Crank Tool
>
> Gilbert, et al:
>
> BikeToolsEtc. list a Stronglight puller made by Stein:
>
> http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=637006571800&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Cr ank&tc=Extractors&item_id=SN-STEX
>
> Dutifully,
>
> Chris Beyer
> Already Got a Stronlight Tool
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> CYCLESTORE@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hello gand,
> >
> > A little while back I posted a not that I might have several Stronglight old
> > Style (#93 fit 23.35 mm) crank extractors in my stash. Well, after an
> > exhaustive search and running up a big phone bill overseas I have exhausted
> > my supply of patience to locate more at the present time.
> >
> > Thanks to all the people requesting this item, I'm afraid it's off to E-bay
> > for you.
> >
> > I will dutifully post the availability of this item and be more diligent next
> > time in sourcing this item as it is reportedly discontinued by Stronglight
> > and Var as well though stock must be around.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Gilbert Anderson
> > North Road Bicyle Company
> > Ralelgh, NC USA
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 19
> From: WmLBoston@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:40:10 EST
> Subject: RE: [CR]Wanted: Yellow 80's Bottle Cages
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Cc: sandranian@yahoo.com
>
> Stephan,
>
> I think the water bottles that you are looking for are TA. They were made in
> chrome plated steel and later in anodized aluminum. I never liked the
> anodized aluminum because the black anodizing marked the bottles and the
> aluminum was not strong enough to hold a pound of water securely,
> particularly when on the bottom of the down tube. I don't recall ever seeing
> them in other colors.
>
> What I used to do, was to sand blast the steel cages (remove the plastic clip
> first) and use Krylon "semi flat" black spray paint. This provided the same
> look as the black anodizing but did not mark the bottles. You may have
> trouble finding new TA cages. I would look for old TA cages, put the retainer
> clips in the dishwasher (top rack) and see if they come clean. If they do,
> remove any rust with emery cloth or sand blasting and paint in your favorite
> shade of yellow. The paint may wear or chip in places, but would be easily
> repaired. Of course if you want something more permanent, you could have the
> cages powder coated. Powder coating used to be expensive and your choice of
> colors may be limited.
>
> HTH
>
> Bill Boston
> Wilmington, DE
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:42:06 -0700
> To: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>, <Huemax@aol.com>,
> <wayofftheback@hotmail.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> From: Bicycle Classics inc <bikevint@tiac.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Another Expensive Old Part on E-bay - now
> earlyStronglight 49D
>
> The 49D crank on ebay features the chainring that is extensively shown in
> illustrations in the Alex Singer catalog from around 1948. If one was to
> replicate such a bike today, having this crank is a critical item. In
> fact, the 1952 Singer sitting in front of me wants that crank - but alas,
> $1,000 to get the right chainring is too rich for my blood. Considering the
> street value of such a bike in Japan, the crank price is precisely where it
> should be given its scarcity. Mike Kone, Bicycle Classics inc. in sunny
> but cold Boulder Colorado.
>
>
>
>
> At 07:55 AM 12/13/01 +0000, Hilary Stone wrote:
> >I must admit I am surprised that this chainset has gone so high but it is
> >very sweet.. However it is not a straight Stronglight 49D chainset. The
> >rings are some special ones whether these are made by Stronglight or someone
> >else I am not certain. They do not appear to be the standard pattern
> >Stronglight 49D ring but I am not really certain what an early double ring
> >should look like. I have plenty of illustrations of early Stronglight 49D
> >chainsets right back to 1938 - 49 in this case does not indicate year of
> >introduction. Stronglight did make some special rings for at least one
> >French manuafacturer, Caminargent. I have pictures of the single rings made
> >for Caminargent but none of doubles and these do appear to have some similar
> >characteristics.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Hilary Stone, its dark now at 7.30 in the morning, Bristol
> >
> >
> >KEN TODA wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> It is an interesting ebay auction.
> >>
> >> <http://ebay.com/<blah
> >>
> >> 1) Bikenut (Matthew Gorski) and ex-member Ken Denny are among bidders (22
> >> bids).
> >>
> >> 2) Among those US bidder, all rest are Japanese bidders.
> >>
> >> 3) Seller says as of 660.00 the "Reserve Not Met", how mauch he wants???
> >>
> >> 4) I think those "French" parts are way overheated, what is so great about
> >> this??
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 21
> From: "Jack Bissell" <jackbissell@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:59:28 -0700
> Subject: [CR]columbia/pope on eBay
>
>
> Have the downhills lost their thrill?
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> Jack "feet up and relaxed" Bissell
> Tucson
>
> "When treading over thin ice, our safety is in our speed"- ??
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 22
> From: "nath" <ferness261@voyager.net>
> To: "Jack Bissell" <jackbissell@hotmail.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]columbia/pope on eBay
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:32:40 -0600
>
> Ooo. That's Emerson: "In skating over thin ice, our safety is in our
> speed."
>
> I don't think I'd want to skate on any kind of ice with that Columbia/Pope
> on eBay, but it sure was fun to look at! (An early biopace chainring!
> Hmm.)
>
> nath dresser
> spring green, wi
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:16:40 -0600
> To: Dale is the list owner <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> From: dave <kawika@austin.rr.com>
> Subject: [CR]cloning a hub...
>
> hello,
>
> ...not exactly but having discovered that 120 spacing hubs are not
> too readily available (hope to be proven wrong on that), now
> wondering, using Campagnolo 126 spacing low flange record hub as an
> example, if a 120 could not be produced by installing a shorter axle
> and removing spacer? of course any replacement parts would also be
> Campagnolo....
>
> guidance appreciated,
>
> thanks,
>
> dave dickerson, austin (tryin' to be seattle), tx
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest