Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.

(Example: Books:Ron Kitching)

From: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
To: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 04:43:45


What about Sierra Nevada then?

Regards, Jerry "Life is too short for cheap beer" Moos

Jerry, Sierra makes great beer. But after 20 years in the business selling beer, mostly imports and Micros, I'm still a fan of European beers and ales. Unfortunately, by the time some of these get of over this side of the lake, something is lost in taste. Also, preservatives are added and this takes something away. Don't get me wrong, there are some great beers made in the US, but we have a little to go to catch the makers overseas. The have only had a two thousand year head start. Peter(self professed beer snob and Miller does SUCK GRAPES)Naiman


>From: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
>To: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
>Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:35:08 -0600
>
>What about Sierra Nevada then?
>
>Regards,
>Jerry "Life is too short for cheap beer" Moos
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
>To: <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 7:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
>
>
> > Jerry: My thought to Richie was that Miller makes lousy beer. I wouldn't
> > want there name on my Hetchins.
> > Peter(Hetchins snob) Naiman
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> > >To: <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>, "Richard M Sachs"
><richardsachs@juno.com>
> > >CC: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <CNye113219@aol.com>,
> > ><OROBOYZ@aol.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
> > >Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:13:30 -0600
> > >
> > >Don't know if Richie is being a bit tongue-in-cheek here or not, but
>this
> > >is
> > >not an unprecedented idea. After all, TJ cycles makes the Baines
>"flying
> > >gate" but labeled "TJ Cycles" and Waterford for a time produced
>essentially
> > >the Schwinn Paramount bearing the "Waterford" name. I'd personally
>have
> > >considered the current Bates attractive, even if Ray had labeled them
> > >"Etherton".
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Jerry "What's in a name?" Moos
> > >Houston, TX
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> > >To: <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
> > >Cc: <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>;
> > ><CNye113219@aol.com>; <OROBOYZ@aol.com>
> > >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:28 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >The fact still remains, that David Miller has been producing
> > > > cycle frames of quality under the Hetchins logo for quite some
>time.<
> > > >
> > > > i propose the entire issue could be resolved if he rebadged them
> > > > as 'millers'.
> > > > e-RICHIE
> > > > in Chester
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:08:31 "peter naiman"
><hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
> > > > writes:
> > > > > Jerry; I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that the owner for whom
>David
> > > > > Miller
> > > > > works bought the name etc. but that the legal system in the UK is
> > > > > rather
> > > > > weak in this area. Maybe Clive or other from the UK could clear
>this
> > > > > up for
> > > > > us. The fact still remains, that David Miller has been producing
> > > > > cycle
> > > > > frames of quality under the Hetchins logo for quite some time. For
> > > > > someone
> > > > > to come along and claim to make Hetchins cycles is a bit wrong in
> > > > > many ways
> > > > > despite legalities.
> > > > > Peter Naiman
> > > > > Boston, Mass
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > > >To: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>,
> > > > > ><classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <CNye113219@aol.com>,
> > > > > <OROBOYZ@aol.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
> > > > > >Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 11:19:36 -0600
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I know we've discussed this topic before, but what was the
> > > > > conclusive
> > > > > >evidence that David Millar is making the "real" Hetchins, while
>the
> > > > > others
> > > > > >are "fakes"? As far a I've heard, neither Millar nor his
> > > > > competitors have
> > > > > >any direct link to the original Hetchins company. If that is
>true,
> > > > > then
> > > > > >the
> > > > > >whole matter comes down to whether in fact Millar purchased
> > > > > exclusive
> > > > > >rights
> > > > > >to the Hetchins name and other intellectual property or whether
>he
> > > > > did not.
> > > > > >Perhaps I'm a bit naive about the British legal system, but if
> > > > > Millar's
> > > > > >rights are clear, shouldn't a lawsuit or even a threatened
>lawsuit
> > > > > resolve
> > > > > >the matter? Could the other party possibly be so bold as to
> > > > > virtually
> > > > > >invite a lawsuit which they would surely lose? Would not the
> > > > > losing party
> > > > > >have to pay the prevailing party's costs as in the US? It would
> > > > > seem that
> > > > > >either there is more to the story than we have heard, or the
> > > > > effectiveness
> > > > > >of the UK legal system (after which much of the US system was
> > > > > modeled) is
> > > > > >less than we naive ex-colonials have been led to believe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Of course, I have seen neither the Millar frames nor the "fakes"
>"in
> > > > > the
> > > > > >flesh, so perhaps those of you who, unlike myself, are qualified
>to
> > > > > express
> > > > > >an opinion consider the Millar frames accurate and well made,
>while
> > > > > the
> > > > > >others are crap by comparison. That would certainly be a valid
> > > > > reason to
> > > > > >refuse to buy the non-Millar frames and to advise others to do
> > > > > likewise,
> > > > > >but
> > > > > >avoiding a product because it is crap is quite different than
> > > > > avoiding it
> > > > > >because it is a fake.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Jerry Moos
> > > > > >Houston, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "peter naiman" <hetchinspete@hotmail.com>
> > > > > >To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>; <CNye113219@aol.com>;
> > > > > ><OROBOYZ@aol.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:24 PM
> > > > > >Subject: [CR]Fake Hetchins controversy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >To all Hetchins lovers and lightweight enthusiasts in the CR
>Group.
> > > > > This
> > > > > >letter comes to me from a fellow cycling friend in the UK with
> > > > > regard to
> > > > > >"Fake" Hetchins. Included in the ad is the email address of these
> > > > > "fake"
> > > > > >makers as well as their phone number in the UK. I can only ask
>that
> > > > > we all
> > > > > >support David Miller in his efforts to get clear title to
>Hetchins
> > > > > >production and to put pressure on the other maker to cease
> > > > > production.
> > > > > >Please write by email or contact by any means these fake makers
> > > > > about your
> > > > > >opinions. Hopefully as a group we can help spread the word as far
> > > > > and wide
> > > > > >as possible. The address by email to contact the fakers is
> > > > > > >hetchins@sales.com< . To contact Andrew Moore about this
>issue,
> > > > > please
> > > > > >email
> > > > > >andrew.d.moore@btinternet.com.
> > > > > >Peter(Hetchinspete)Naiman
> > > > > >Boston, Mass
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Attached is an advert from Omega Cycles with regards to what
>best
> > > > > can be
> > > > > > >discribed as a copy of the original and at worst a FAKE. The
> > > > > advert
> > > > > >seemes
> > > > > > >to be mistaken with regards to it's comment about being back,
>"to
> > > > > be back
> > > > > > >you first have to go" As we all know the geniune Hetchins has
> > > > > never
> > > > > > >stopped trading.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I've passed the details to both David Millar and Flash
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Happy new year to you all
> > > > > > >regards
> > > > > > >Andrew Moore
> > > > > > >Wiltshire England
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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