I have the Mavic tool to chamfer the bb shell. Jamie Swan
classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org wrote:
> Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Cirque schedule for the saturday prior to the event itself... (OROBOYZ@aol.com)
> 2. Old Campagnolo Track Hub - 1961 (Steven m Johnson)
> 3. Re: Old Campagnolo Track Hub - 1961 (Steve Freides)
> 4. R. Herse: Comparative Value (Chris Beyer)
> 5. Re: Re: Herse that was on ebay (Jerry & Liz Moos)
> 6. Re: The Third Hand, Loose Screws (Monkeyman)
> 7. . . . to be french (Monkeyman)
> 8. Number 2? (Steven L. Sheffield)
> 9. Re: Oh so French. . . (Don Andersen)
> 10. Re: . . . to be french (Stephen Spielman)
> 11. Re: Number 2? (Jerry & Liz Moos)
> 12. CAPE MAY NEW JERSEY TO HIGH POINT BIKE ROUTE (JAMES T. SALZLEIN)
> 13. Re: The Third Hand, Loose Screws (Jon M. Schaer)
> 14. Re: Number 2? (Bicycle Classics inc)
> 15. New Date 4-22 San Diego Vintage Ride (sterling peters)
> 16. Re: Number 2? (KCTOMMY)
> 17. Re: Number 2? (Brian Baylis)
> 18. Re: The Third Hand, Loose Screws (Bicycle Classics inc)
> 19. new subscriber Jamie Swan (Jamie)
> 20. Re: French - Oh so Champion Team! (Bicycle Classics inc)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:41:07 EST
> To: LouDeeter@aol.com, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Re: Cirque schedule for the saturday prior to the event itself...
>
> In a message dated 3/13/01 7:57:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, LouDeeter writes:
>
> << tell us about the agenda for (the Cirque du Cyclisme) Saturday, 5 May? >>
>
> Lou and CR folks:
>
> Due to space and other factors, these events are open to all CR members and
> my specials invitees only. They will not be advertised or promoted beyond
> this forum. We still expect a standing room only turnout. TBA..The listed
> speakers may be augmented by other persons who will be attending the Cirque..
>
> 10 AM -
>
> A conversational pace road ride of approx. 35 miles (longer for racers in
> training if they choose) departing from cycles de ORO shop. An emphasis on
> area sights, unsupported (no sag) & led by local CR members.
>
> 3 PM- 6:30 PM
>
> Traditional methods Frame Building and Classic Bike Seminar:
>
> 1.) Brian Baylis, La Mesa, CA - Master frame builder.
>
> 2.) Alan Bernstein, New York. - "Beauty & the Bicycle" a film by the
> speaker & Emory Van Cleve.
>
> 3.) Mike Kone, Boulder, CO - Bicycle Classics.
>
> 7:30 PM - ?
>
> Informal Classic Rendezvous gathering for dinner and/or beverages at the
> Spring Garden Brewing Company
>
> Then early to bed for the big day to follow!
>
> Contact me with any questions....
> Thanks,
> Dale
>
> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO, Inc.
> 1406 West Northwood Street
> Greensboro, North Carolina
> USA 27408
> 336-274-5959
> Fax 336-274-6360
> <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com">cyclesdeORO.com</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.cyclesdeoro.com/Classc_Home.htm">Classic Rendezvous
> Vintage Lightweight Bicycles</A>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:03:42 -0500
> From: Steven m Johnson <grisha2@juno.com>
> Subject: [CR]Old Campagnolo Track Hub - 1961
>
> Not connected to seller.
>
> http://ebay.com/
>
> Steven M. Johnson, Chesapeake, VA
> http://members.home.com/
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:48:14 -0500
> From: Steve Freides <steve@fridayscomputer.com>
> Organization: Friday's Computer, Inc.
> To: Classic Lightweights <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Old Campagnolo Track Hub - 1961
>
> Wasn't 100 or 110mm spacing the norm for track hubs at the time this hub was
> supposed to have been around, about 1960?
>
> -S-
>
> Steven m Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Not connected to seller.
> >
> > http://ebay.com/
> >
> > Steven M. Johnson, Chesapeake, VA
> > http://members.home.com/
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > http://dl.www.juno.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:25:21 -0500
> From: Chris Beyer <beyerc@mailserver.volvo.com>
> To: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]R. Herse: Comparative Value
>
> To put things in perspective, there's a Fender Stratocaster on eBay
> which used to belong to Jimi Hendrix.
>
> It's currently at a little over $100K, with 9 days to go.
>
> That's 25 Rene Herse demontables, and climbing every minute.......
>
> If you can't afford the guitar, the same seller has a pair of shoes
> which used to belong to Noel Redding (gulp!).
>
> Chris Beyer
> (What's "Disposable Income", anyway??)
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:39:37 -0500
> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
> To: Aldo Ross <swampmtn@siscom.net>,
> Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Herse that was on ebay
>
> Wow, looks like the Japanese bidders I expected were overwhelmed by our list
> members. Is "routens" on the list? It's now more diffucult to display the
> email of the winner, but I see he has positive feed from Chuck Schmidt and John
> Barron on past purchases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> Aldo Ross wrote:
>
> > Auction ended at 14:01:39 PST
> > Item # 1118581984
> > http://ebay.com/
> > 499
> >
> > Reserve met, sold for $4000
> >
> > Aldo Ross
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bicycle Classics inc <bikevint@tiac.net>
> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:54 AM
> > Subject: [CR]Re: Herse that was on ebay
> >
> > > Hi CR folks,
> > >
> > > I missed the final moments of the Herse auction on Ebay and now I don't
> > see
> > > it in completed's, so I assume it didn't hit reserve. Does anyone know
> > how
> > > high it went? Just curious - Thanks. Mike "not glued to ebay" Kone
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:30:12 -0700
> To: David Van Hook <dvanhook@yahoo.com>,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> From: Monkeyman <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]The Third Hand, Loose Screws
>
> >Ladies & Gentleman of The List,
> >Does anyone out there have any inside information
> >about what might/will become of the inventory of
> >The Third Hand, Loose Screws after the end of
> >this month?
>
> Well Third Hand is also part of the United Bicycle Parts and Tools thing,
> so my guess is they're just getting out of the retail thing. If you need
> something abfter the doors have closed ask a cool LBS.
>
> enjoy,
> Brnadon"monkeyman"Ives
>
> Brandon and Mitzi's-- "Wurld uv Wunder"
> http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/
>
> Monkeyman's on going bicycle part garage sale <<<NEW LISTINGS>>>
> http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Nobody can do everything,
> but if everybody did something
> everything would get done.
> -Gil Scott Heron-
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:36:27 -0700
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> From: Monkeyman <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> Subject: [CR]. . . to be french
>
> Thanks for all the responses. I think it'll be the Vitus 979, and to the
> person who knows where the KAS 979 it is perfect (if it's a 54-56) but I'm
> not in the position to buy yet-- just dream. I still need to get the
> correct BB and brake levers (mine are marked Modolo) and start thinking
> about rims. If I could find a top top Motobecane or Gitane frames that
> wold be it. Again thanks for the info.
>
> enjoy,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>
> Brandon and Mitzi's-- "Wurld uv Wunder"
> http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/
>
> Monkeyman's on going bicycle part garage sale <<<NEW LISTINGS>>>
> http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Nobody can do everything,
> but if everybody did something
> everything would get done.
> -Gil Scott Heron-
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:47:15 -0800
> From: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Number 2?
>
> So ... if we are all agreed that Mario Confente was the best builder in the
> United States in the 1970s ...
>
> Who is number 2, and for whom does he work?
>
> Or are we even agreed that Mario is number 1?
>
> If you could have a bike built by each of the top three builders, who would
> they be? In order?
>
> --
>
> Steven L. Sheffield
> stevens at veloworks dot com
> veloworks at earthlink dot net
> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Don Andersen" <peugeotpx10@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Oh so French. . .
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:50:28 -0000
>
> If it were me, a Peugeot Carbon from that same year. Why, because I always
> wanted one back then but never had enough moola. Besides, Pascal Simon and
> Robert Millar rode 'em-or so we thought.?
>
> Don Andersen
> Columbia, MD
>
> >I'm in the process of putting together a long range bike plan, what things
> >to sell, which to restore, ETC. Anyway I have about 1.5 bikes worth of
> >'85-'86 Mavic SSC parts and want to put them on a frame in the next year.
> >The question is what frame? I know many of you out there are
> >French-fixated and I think these parts deserve a French frame. What do you
> >think, Alan, Peugeot, Vitus, what? Which models and why? If you think
> >they would fit well on another frame just say so. My knowledge of French
> >bikes is a bit lacking and I need your help.
> >
> >thanks,
> >Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
> >
> >
> >Brandon and Mitzi's-- "Wurld uv Wunder"
> >http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~capybara/
> >
> >Monkeyman's on going bicycle part garage sale <<<NEW LISTINGS>>>
> >http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~mkirklan/salepage/garage.html
> >
> >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >Nobody can do everything,
> >but if everybody did something
> >everything would get done.
> > -Gil Scott Heron-
> >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:49:14 -0500
> From: Stephen Spielman <sspielman@goeaston.net>
> To: "Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]. . . to be french
>
> If you are using the Mavic SSC bottom bracket, you should be aware that it
> requires special machining of the bottom bracket shell....actually the edges
> of the shell need to be chamfered, and the BB fits in the shell without
> utilising the threading. You may have already known this, though. As an added
> bonus of selecting the Vitus 979, many of these frames came from the factory
> with their BBs thus chamfered.
> -Steve Spielman
> Maryland
>
> Monkeyman wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the responses. I think it'll be the Vitus 979, and to the
> > person who knows where the KAS 979 it is perfect (if it's a 54-56) but I'm
> > not in the position to buy yet-- just dream. I still need to get the
> > correct BB and brake levers (mine are marked Modolo) and start thinking
> > about rims. If I could find a top top Motobecane or Gitane frames that
> > wold be it. Again thanks for the info.
> >
> > enjoy,
> > Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
> >
> > Brandon and Mitzi's-- "Wurld uv Wunder"
> > http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/
> >
> > Monkeyman's on going bicycle part garage sale <<<NEW LISTINGS>>>
> > http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/
> >
> > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > Nobody can do everything,
> > but if everybody did something
> > everything would get done.
> > -Gil Scott Heron-
> > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:02:05 -0500
> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
> To: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Number 2?
>
> Well, Mario may have been worshiped in California, but in my part of the US in
> the 70's (Ohio in the early 70's, Arkansas in the late 70's) I would say Albert
> Eisentraut was much better known. In fact, I'd say Eisentraut was probably the
> first US framebuilder since WWII to become well known among US biking
> enthusiasts generally, as opposed to among fellow framebuilders. That isn't to
> say he was necessarily better than Mario, but he certainly was/is no slouch.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
> Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
>
> > So ... if we are all agreed that Mario Confente was the best builder in the
> > United States in the 1970s ...
> >
> > Who is number 2, and for whom does he work?
> >
> > Or are we even agreed that Mario is number 1?
> >
> > If you could have a bike built by each of the top three builders, who would
> > they be? In order?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Steven L. Sheffield
> > stevens at veloworks dot com
> > veloworks at earthlink dot net
> > aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> > double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:17:00 -0500
> From: "JAMES T. SALZLEIN" <jsalz@bellatlantic.net>
> Reply-To: jsalz@bellatlantic.net
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]CAPE MAY NEW JERSEY TO HIGH POINT BIKE ROUTE
>
> The New Jersey Department of Transportation is planning a Bicycle
> Touring Route, from Cape May, New Jersey to High Point, New Jersey. In
> order to complete this project, the State DOT needs the support of the
> communities that this route passes through. If any New Jersey
> listmember has an interest in this, please contact your local government
> officials and solicit their support. Sheree Davis, New Jersey State
> Department of Transportation, email sheree.davis@dot.state.nj.us, can
> fill you in on the particulars.
>
> I apologize if this message could be considered off topic, but what
> better way could we increase our pleasure from our passion, and enhance
> others perception of our hobby, than by this project.
>
> Jim Salzlein, "Enjoying the advance of spring, in Cape May"
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: "Jon M. Schaer" <jschaer@columbus.rr.com>
> To: "David Van Hook" <dvanhook@yahoo.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> "Monkeyman" <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]The Third Hand, Loose Screws
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:28:28 -0500
>
> TH/LS started out as a "retail" operation from UBT, but split quite a while
> ago. Jeff and Jean have run it as an entire seperate entity ever since. The
> website and cat are their own, as is the supplier network, etc. I'm not
> knocking any LBS, but I doubt many will find many shops with the capability
> or knowege or desire to step into that arena. Sheldon Brown/Harris Cyclery
> may be about as close as we'll come. I do understand that TH/LS will
> continue on in web form, after some recoup time, but in a reduced capacity.
> Mostly remaining inventory, I think. The days of a cornucopia of tools and
> service parts available at finger's end are probably gone. But who knows,
> maybe some time off will refresh attitudes.........
>
> Jon Schaer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Monkeyman <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> To: David Van Hook <dvanhook@yahoo.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]The Third Hand, Loose Screws
>
> >
> > Well Third Hand is also part of the United Bicycle Parts and Tools thing,
> > so my guess is they're just getting out of the retail thing. If you need
> > something abfter the doors have closed ask a cool LBS.
> >
> > enjoy,
> > Brnadon"monkeyman"Ives
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:33:11 -0700
> To: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>,
> "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
> From: Bicycle Classics inc <bikevint@tiac.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Number 2?
> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> I am walking on thin ice here by getting into this, but here I go. An
> Eisentraut frame is a wonderful frame - but it just isn't the same as a
> Confente. On rare occassions there are things created by man/woman that
> somehow convey a unique sense of perfection and beauty. An Eisentraut
> frame is a superbe frame - but one does not get the same overwhelming sense
> of beauty and perfection from being near it as one gets from a Confente.
> Coupled with the awesome ride characteristics of a Confente, it is not at
> all suprising that it is held in such high regard by so many. This does not
> imply that other builders cannot build a frame of equal - or perhaps even
> superior quality - there are builders on this list that can. But Confente
> frames have a look and "feel" to them that is really quite powerfull - in
> my mind a Confente frame was certainly the defining racing frame of a past
> period - and now we are lucky to have builders among us that push the art
> of framebuilding forward in the present. Mike "just love the sweet
> Confente lugs" Kone
>
> At 09:02 PM 3/13/01 -0500, Jerry & Liz Moos wrote:
> >Well, Mario may have been worshiped in California, but in my part of the
> US in
> >the 70's (Ohio in the early 70's, Arkansas in the late 70's) I would say
> Albert
> >Eisentraut was much better known. In fact, I'd say Eisentraut was
> probably the
> >first US framebuilder since WWII to become well known among US biking
> >enthusiasts generally, as opposed to among fellow framebuilders. That
> isn't to
> >say he was necessarily better than Mario, but he certainly was/is no slouch.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jerry Moos
> >
> >Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
> >
> >> So ... if we are all agreed that Mario Confente was the best builder in the
> >> United States in the 1970s ...
> >>
> >> Who is number 2, and for whom does he work?
> >>
> >> Or are we even agreed that Mario is number 1?
> >>
> >> If you could have a bike built by each of the top three builders, who would
> >> they be? In order?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Steven L. Sheffield
> >> stevens at veloworks dot com
> >> veloworks at earthlink dot net
> >> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> >> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:49:34 -0500 (EST)
> From: sterling peters <sterlingcapital@mail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]New Date 4-22 San Diego Vintage Ride
>
> Thanks to Pualie Davis for keeping me on my toes. April 15th is Easter
> Sunday. So let's shoot for Sunday, April 22. April 21 is the Rosarita-
> Encinada bike ride. Maybe we'll have some people from up North want to spend
> the weekend. If there are any conflicts with Sunday, April 22, let me Know
> ASAP before I start inviting others. Please and thank you Sterling
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> From: "KCTOMMY" <KCTOMMY@email.msn.com>
> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Number 2?
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:52:08 -0600
>
> I suppose I'd want a bike from the three builders who were most respected
> and desired in SE Michigan, especially by a much younger and skinnier me,
> back in the mid - late 70's: Matt Assenmacher, Doug Fattic and Mark
> Nobillette. Not that they were the "best" or "better", but because they
> were/are highly competent builders who made pretty bikes that the "best"
> riders I knew rode in my formative years. Assenmachers for the tourists,
> Nobilettes for the racers and Fattics for the artsy/riche crowd. Marinnoni
> frames came in later in my formative age, in the early 80's, when Multigear
> in A2 sold them, which is where I bought mine. Midwest Cyclery had a
> beautiful Assenmacher in earlier this year, but the owner wasn't interested
> in selling. Arrgh!
>
> One down, three to go!
>
> Tom Adams, 25 miles on the Raleigh International's maiden voyage after work
> today in Kansas City !
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry & Liz Moos <moos@penn.com>
> To: Steven L. Sheffield <stevens@veloworks.com>
> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Number 2?
>
> >Well, Mario may have been worshiped in California, but in my part of the US
> in
> >the 70's (Ohio in the early 70's, Arkansas in the late 70's) I would say
> Albert
> >Eisentraut was much better known. In fact, I'd say Eisentraut was probably
> the
> >first US framebuilder since WWII to become well known among US biking
> >enthusiasts generally, as opposed to among fellow framebuilders. That
> isn't to
> >say he was necessarily better than Mario, but he certainly was/is no
> slouch.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jerry Moos
> >
> >Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
> >
> >> So ... if we are all agreed that Mario Confente was the best builder in
> the
> >> United States in the 1970s ...
> >>
> >> Who is number 2, and for whom does he work?
> >>
> >> Or are we even agreed that Mario is number 1?
> >>
> >> If you could have a bike built by each of the top three builders, who
> would
> >> they be? In order?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Steven L. Sheffield
> >> stevens at veloworks dot com
> >> veloworks at earthlink dot net
> >> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> >> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:05:22 -0800
> From: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com>
> Reply-To: rocklube@adnc.com
> To: "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Number 2?
>
> Steven,
>
> Interesting question. You might want to qualify exactly which period of
> the 1970's you are refering to. Reason being that many of us Yanks were
> progressing at a very fast pace while our counterparts from various
> parts of the globe were "stuck" in the "traditional" role of
> framebuilders of the past; that being just a constructor of a mode of
> transportation, etc. that had to fit into a "practical" price range for
> such an item. The American frambuilders suffered from the illision that
> there was some "magic" involved in framebuilding, when in fact it is
> almost all common sense and very basic skills. But on account of this,
> many American builders tried to live up to and surpass that which they
> saw as the pinnicle at the time. What seperates American builders from
> most others is the silly notion that the bicycle frame can be "no more"
> than a tool or weapon of "war". Fact is that frame design and
> construction from the standpoint of utility only is fine, but there is
> no reason not to make it "artistic" as well if one so chooses. An
> exercise in designing and building a useful item first and foremost
> ALWAYS; and making it beautiful last. I can't count how many times I've
> heard people say that the bike is "compromised" as a tool if it is
> beautiful in addition to well designed and intelligently constructed.
> Many people think if a frame is artisticly rendered then the builder is
> not focusing in the "important" aspects. WRONG! DOUBLE WRONG! There
> seems to be no way to convince people that (at least speaking for myself
> and the builders I know personally) that is NEVER the case.
>
> Ironically, the intelligently applied "artistic" touches frequently
> improve the frame from a structural point of view. I will go into this
> later and will cover this point in the seminar, but for now just let the
> concept enter your mind and germinate for a while.
>
> What makes Confente frames "bigger than life" is the tragic tale of his
> early death and the extremely low number of frames built. No American
> builder can compete with that. That is not to take anything away from
> Marios' work, because he was a creative thinker and liked to be on the
> "cutting edge" of what was happening; but by the same token Mario most
> probably would never have stepped out of the "traditional" frame of mind
> to the degree that many American builders have. None of us will ever
> have the "mystic" of Mario, but many have started the race behind him
> and were ahead of him by my deffinition at the time of his passing.
> Furthermore, Mario would not have changed much at all if he had stayed
> in Italy in my opinion. It was the demand of the American customers that
> pushed Mario to accomodate our exccentric American tastes and inspired
> him to meet our expectaions of a "God". Just my opinion, so let's not
> start an argument here. But defining "the best framebuilders" is going
> to be a task; thank goodness I don't have to participate in this one,
> I'll just watch thank you very much.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> >
> > So ... if we are all agreed that Mario Confente was the best builder in the
> > United States in the 1970s ...
> >
> > Who is number 2, and for whom does he work?
> >
> > Or are we even agreed that Mario is number 1?
> >
> > If you could have a bike built by each of the top three builders, who would
> > they be? In order?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Steven L. Sheffield
> > stevens at veloworks dot com
> > veloworks at earthlink dot net
> > aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> > double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:11:27 -0700
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> From: Bicycle Classics inc <bikevint@tiac.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]The Third Hand, Loose Screws
>
> Hi CR folks,
>
> My understanding after talking with the folks at United Bicycle Tool is
> that some other business - located in Ashland OR, was in the works to pick
> up where Third Hand/Loose Screws left off. Given that they're planning to
> keep up with the web bussiness indicates that perhaps that isn't the case.
>
> Note that any bike shop (or us for that matter) can order from United
> Bicycle Tool the items that Third Hand sold. A problem, though, is that
> Third Hand had a huge advantage over its competitors based on its location.
> It didn't have to stock much as United Bicycle Tool was in town. Plus, a
> look at the prices of Third Hand vs United Bicycle Tool revealed that Third
> Hand was getting product for much less than the typical wholesale prices
> paid by a typical bike shop. This isn't just speculation - and given the
> huge amount of business Third Hand did with United Bicycle Tool it is not
> unreasonable that they did get special prices.
>
> This is great for consumers, but lousy for bike shops and other business
> such as ourselves - if Third hand is selling items for 15% over cost, a
> shop simply can't compete if forced to meet price.
>
> My guess is that either Third hand will continue in some form, or some
> local business in Ashland OR will emerge to fill the void. At Bicycle
> Classics we'll perhaps pick up the tool side of the business a bit, but a
> retailer in Ashland OR could certainly do a much better job. And the key
> thing to remember is that if you have a Third Hand catalog, just visit your
> local bike shop and for a fair premium over Third Hand prices they should
> be able to get you anything you need. The wide array of goodies you can't
> get from them may be available just around the corner at your local bike shop.
>
> Michael Kone
>
> At 09:28 PM 3/13/01 -0500, Jon M. Schaer wrote:
> >TH/LS started out as a "retail" operation from UBT, but split quite a while
> >ago. Jeff and Jean have run it as an entire seperate entity ever since. The
> >website and cat are their own, as is the supplier network, etc. I'm not
> >knocking any LBS, but I doubt many will find many shops with the capability
> >or knowege or desire to step into that arena. Sheldon Brown/Harris Cyclery
> >may be about as close as we'll come. I do understand that TH/LS will
> >continue on in web form, after some recoup time, but in a reduced capacity.
> >Mostly remaining inventory, I think. The days of a cornucopia of tools and
> >service parts available at finger's end are probably gone. But who knows,
> >maybe some time off will refresh attitudes.........
> >
> >Jon Schaer
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Monkeyman <monkey37@bluemarble.net>
> >To: David Van Hook <dvanhook@yahoo.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:30 PM
> >Subject: Re: [CR]The Third Hand, Loose Screws
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Well Third Hand is also part of the United Bicycle Parts and Tools thing,
> >> so my guess is they're just getting out of the retail thing. If you need
> >> something abfter the doors have closed ask a cool LBS.
> >>
> >> enjoy,
> >> Brnadon"monkeyman"Ives
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:13:14 -0500
> From: Jamie <jswan@optonline.net>
> To: classic rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]new subscriber Jamie Swan
>
> Hi gang! I'm new so I thought I'd introduce myself. Some of you already
> know me. My
> name is Jamie Swan. I own a tiny one-man bike shop called Centerport
> Cycles in
> Northport, Long Island. Started riding seriously and working in bike
> shops in the
> late 60's. Started racing in '73. Associates degree in mechanical
> engineering
> technology. Full time professional wheel builder from '76 through '89. I
> got to
> build some wheels that were ridden by fairly well know riders in big
> races. Built
> first frame in '80; inspired by the Talbot book. I've built a few others
> since. I
> have been slowly tooling up to do more frame building. I am a machine
> tool fanatic
> so I am pretty well equipped. Opened Centerport Cycles in '90. I was a
> Bridgestone
> and Masi dealer. Presently I do a few Waterfords. Mostly I just do the
> neighborhood
> flat tires and tune-ups. I've been a vendor at Lars Andersen and Copake
> as well as
> some of the other swap meets. I've sold some vintage lightweight stuff
> on ebay too.
> Some of you probably saw the 1955 Peugeot randenour bike that I sold
> last September. I've got a nice Rockwell lathe on ebay now. My user name
> is jamieswan.
> My tastes run towards retro style in everything; house, furniture,
> machinery, bikes... I hope that this
> has not been too long winded. Jamie Swan.
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:24:11 -0700
> To: "renaissance-cycles" <info@renaissance-cycles.com>,
> "KCTOMMY" <KCTOMMY@email.msn.com>, <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> From: Bicycle Classics inc <bikevint@tiac.net>
> Subject: [CR]Re: French - Oh so Champion Team!
>
> I wonder if BC is actually referring to the 753 Champion Team that was made
> in very low numbers? It is a really gorgeous dark blue with less than
> gorgeous Motobecane graphics. Not sure if it was really built with 753 -
> and the topic was covered in a previous thread on this group. The decals
> certainly say 753 and the frame is very light. If anyone wants a never
> ridden but twice build up frame/fork and NR headset example that is 56cm to
> top, we have one for sale for $800. I think Don Anderson even offered to
> send the person who ends up with it (could be me if I'm lucky and nobody
> buys it) its original shipping carton. I really want to keep it cause its
> French and cool, but I really should sell it because I'm trying to move
> back in time. Mike "can't keep everything" Kone
>
> At 03:41 AM 3/13/01 +0100, renaissance-cycles wrote:
> >Early 80's Midnight blue Motobecane ''TEAM CHAMPION''! Thats if you can find
> >one!
> >I only knew of one complete bike, which was a show bike and 12 or 14
> >framesets which made
> >its way to the Motobecane supplier for the western States, DIN of Mt View
> >Ca. Now long gone!................This was all that this supplier ever
> >brought into the States!!...................
> >Very fitting for your Mavic groupo.
> >
> >Happy hunting!!!
> >
> >BC
> >Baron Corpuz
> >Holland
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: KCTOMMY <KCTOMMY@email.msn.com>
> >To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 2:43 AM
> >Subject: Re: [CR]Re:Oh so French
> >
> >
> >> Not very french, but how about a LeMond era ADR style Bottechia?
> >>
> >> Tom Adams, Kansas City
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Stephen Spielman <sspielman@goeaston.net>
> >> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> >> Date: Monday, March 12, 2001 7:31 PM
> >> Subject: [CR]Re:Oh so French
> >>
> >>
> >> >In my opinion, it would be hard to do better by a gruppo of Mavic SSC
> >> >parts than to assemble them on a classic Vitus 979 frame. It is the
> >> >perfect "Sean Kelly" combination. If you want to go for the complete
> >> >look, you could substitute in a set of Campagnolo brake pads and holders
> >> >on the Modolo made Mavic brakes. As classic as the Vitus would be, an
> >> >Eddy Merckx Corsa frame would be a good candidate, too....sort of in the
> >> >vein of one of the very early Kelme squads. Any way you slice it, they
> >> >are cool parts.
> >> >-Steve Spielman
> >> >Maryland
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest