RE: Fight pickin' ... Re: [CR]Quiet again


Example: History:Norris Lockley

From: "Steven L. Sheffield" <veloworks@hotmail.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: RE: Fight pickin' ... Re: [CR]Quiet again
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:27:14 -0000


The concept of extending the head tube is to provide more support to the steerer tube so you don't have to have 6-8 cm of spacers if you need to get the bars up that high.

Oft-times when we (at A Bicycle Odyssey) do fittings for frames, we will spec a head tube extension because the client needs to be higher but building a larger frame with the correct angles would force a top-tube that is too long, especially on a lugged frame.

----Original Message Follows---- From: Brandon Ives <monkey37@bluemarble.net> To: Rich Rose <rrose@normandassociates.com> CC: "Moos, Jerry" <jmoos@urc.com>, rocklube@adnc.com, Philcycles@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: Fight pickin' ... Re: [CR]Quiet again Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:47:28 -0500 (EST)

You're defeating your own arguement. It doesn't matter what kind of steerer you use. If you have a threadless, which Grant won't build and is also "unclassic",and want to raise your stem you'd have to replace the fork anyway and you can cut the steerer any length you want anyway. Extending your headtube won't make any difference. Plus with all the variations of ahead style stems there's no need for the extended headtube with a threadless system. Maybe it's just me but I'd much rather have a stem that angles up a bit over headtube that's too long. enjoy, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives

"Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything would get done." Gil Scott-Heron

On Wed, 23 May 2001, Rich Rose wrote:

> O.K., but.., if you prefer to use a threadless steerer and still would
   > like to get the bars a little higher the extended headtube seems like a
   > good alternative to all of those spacers, no? I did not use to like them
   > either (extended head tubes), until I saw a Richard Sachs with one.
   > Richard Rose (Toledo, Ohio)
   >
   > -----Original Message-----
   > From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
   > [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Ives
   > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:16 PM
   > To: Moos, Jerry
   > Cc: 'rocklube@adnc.com'; Philcycles@aol.com;
   > classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
   > Subject: RE: Fight pickin' ... Re: [CR]Quiet again
   >
   > I'm with Brian 100% here. I think extended headtubes are freakin
   > stupid. I hate to burst people's bubbles but Grant is a marketing
   > person
   > NOT a framebuilder. Don't get me wrong I've met Grant twice, back in
   > the
   > mid-90's, and like the man, but too many people take his words as
   > gospel. He say's he's designing in a classic style, but I've never seen
   > any "classic" bikes with extended headtubes. So by definition
   > "classic" stems should work just fine on bikes that are tall enough. I
   > think the problem is he's designing for riding in the drops and as bars
   > have gotten deeper the stem has to rise. All my bars are level with the
   > seat or an inch above and I don't seem to need an extended headtube, I
   > also don't use deep bars. The answer is to raise the toptube and unless
   > you have a really high BB it shouldn't matter. Please let's not start a
   > whole Grant thread since it's one of the main reasons I left iBOB after
   > 4
   > years. We can discuss the bikes and the "real" builders, but until
   > Grant
   > picks up a file and torch let's just leave him out.
   > enjoy,
   > Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
   >
   > "Nobody can do everything, but if everybody did something everything
   > would
   > get done." Gil Scott-Heron
   >
   > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Moos, Jerry wrote:
   >
   > > Brian, what is your objection to extended headtubes? Obviously you
   > disagree
   > > with Grant Petersen on that subject. I think you made a comment at
   > Cirque
   > > that "there are better ways to achieve the objective", but I'm curious
   > what
   > > those ways are. One can obviously use a stem with a very long quill,
   > but
   > > that rules out a lot of classic stems, or one can slope the top tube
   > upward
   > > from seatube to headtube much more sharply than Rivendell does, but at
   > some
   > > point this causes the frame to look strange, like the team issue
   > Giants.
   > >
   > > Regards,
   > >
   > > Jerry Moos
   > >
   > > -----Original Message-----
   > > From: Brian Baylis [mailto:rocklube@adnc.com]
   > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:55 PM
   > > To: Philcycles@aol.com
   > > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
   > > Subject: Re: Fight pickin' ... Re: [CR]Quiet again
   > >
   > >
   > > Phil,
   > >
   > > To a degree I find this true for myself as well, although my customer
   > > bas has become only those that want what I specialize in. I never
   > build
   > > anything I don't want to build, like extended head tubes (have turned
   > > dwon lots of those requests) and so on. Good example of a frame not
   > > likely to be ordered is the frame in progress shown at the Cirque,
   > much
   > > of the details of which weren't shown in the photo on Dales' site. By
   > > the same token, I've built some rather elaborate frames for paying
   > > customers since the Wizard days.
   > >
   > > Brian Baylis
   > > La Mesa, CA
   > >
   > > P.S. Got Bruce looking into a Flying Scot for me. Not really sure what
   > > they are, but whatever it is, I'll take one.
   > > >
   > > > In a message dated 5/23/01 8:10:01 AM, CYCLESTORE@aol.com writes:
   > > >
   > > > << The best work from custom work shops is commissioned by the
   > buyer, not
   > > the
   > > > builder. I would guess David Bohm and Richard Sachs best work came
   > from
   > > their
   > > > best customer (if you can define that) that was willing and able to
   > pay
   > > for
   > > > it. >>
   > > >
   > > > Oh, boy! I get to start one!
   > > > My best work-not highest quality but most elaborate and thought
   > out-is for
   > > > myself. My customers (with one exception) are not normally willing
   > to
   > > spend
   > > > the time and/or money for this sort of stuff. And I don't mean just
   > work
   > > time
   > > > but time spent defining just what you want. I've made nice bikes for
   > > > customers but not as nice as my own because I really know just what
   > I
   > > want.
   > > > And it's very hard to draw that sort of thing out of a person
   > because they
   > > > may not know the range of choices available to him and the education
   > > process
   > > > takes as long as building the bike. I like to do it but it's tough
   > to get
   > > a
   > > > customer to go along.
   > > > Phil Brown
   > > >
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