Not to get off subject but I am sick of reading about shifters -- I was at Newport beach for the 4 Th. of July and as I went to check my car in the ally it was parked in I saw this old bike sticking out of a trash can, it has a nice old cottered crank and as I looked I saw the front wheel and fork sticking out of a second trash can. I knew my wife would be embarrassed so I wanted to do a stealth grab. I was waiting until two young girls walked by when all of a sudden the garage door opened to that house the bike was in front of and the owner of the house saw the bike in his trash and got all upset and moved the trash into his yard. You snooze you loose. Sam D.