Re: [CR]Eisentraut frames that may fail at any time.

(Example: Events)

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:02:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [CR]Eisentraut frames that may fail at any time.
From: "Richard M Sachs" <>

<<I don't pretend to know, but I would sure love to here from our resident framebuilders on this issue... So, ante up framebuilders!! >> ---------------------------------------------- here is my quick & dirty reply in very general terms; (hey, i gotta ship a 3.6lb steel cyclocross frame to switzerland today for some ''light use'' in two weeks at the world campionships...).

i buy NONE of it. technically, with repeated bending cycles, steel doesn't weaken, it gets stronger. but what nut is going to test out a bunch of random steel frames before and after 15,000 miles of use? there are too many variables; skill level, brazing sequences, materials, tolerances (which vary from batch to batch); it's like, AS IF!!!! (said in my best ''valley-girl speak''.)

there are no controled situations. even the best produced, most efficient factory assembly line frames have wide variations in their levels. at best, this is an arcane subject, perpetuated mostly by people whose riding speed never exceeds 30kph and who will take a lifetime to accumulate 15,000 miles.

imho, it takes a certain amount of depth to understand that these items actually GET BETTER with use. my current, (my ONLY), bicycle is four racing seasons old and there is no end in sight. keep in mind that this is the ONLY bicycle i have ridden for the last four years.

one reason people assume that bikes don't 'last' and they 'need' to replace them is that this is how the industry markets itself. that's why it is called the bicycle BUSINESS. also, frames that are not new do not work with parts that are new; another dilemna, huh! furthermore, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the 'feel' of a bicycle is also determined by factors other than the frame's material; tire type and pressure, heat treated bars, padded saddles, weight distribution, as well as what was consumed for breakfast.

finally, if people can accept that violins and guitars can 'improve' with age owing to the skills of the luthier and the materials used, why can't they understand similarly about steel frames?! and just as is the case with these instruments, the bicycles will not get better without use.

e-RICHIE -------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:10:56 -0500 "Richard Rose" <> writes:
> O.K., this has got to stop. I get enough of this stuff from the kids
> at the
> LBS who try to tell me that my steel bike will wear out after a
> couple of
> seasons, especially as relates to their own carbon fiber / aluminum
> rigs.
> The folks on this list must love their steel bikes for a lot more
> than their
> good looks over time, but also their riding characteristics - over
> time.
> Maybe, just maybe, in an all out racing situation a steel frame
> could lose
> some of its best qualities? I don't pretend to know, but I would
> sure love
> to here from our resident framebuilders on this issue.
> Is it art or is it just a tool? A recurring issue. It's not art if
> it does
> not last. I have my doubts - I think my steel bikes get better with
> age.
> So, ante up framebuilders!! Hey, why spend $2,500 bucks for
> something that
> is only good for a couple of years? If I want to do that I can buy a
> car.
> Richard Rose (Toledo, Ohio)
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [] On Behalf Of
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:27 AM
> To:
> Subject: [CR]Eisentraut frames that may fail at any time.
> Well, in one case I can tell you this is the truth. A friend of
> mind has a
> 1970s model that one day when we were riding decided to break. It
> failed
> between the bottom of the down tube and the BB shell. I am not
> trying to
> make the statement that all old bikes fail but this one certainly
> did. I
> VOW NOW NEVER BUY ANOTHER OLD BIKE only aluminum titanium and
> carbon fiber
> for me. I should go with the carbon fiber by doctor recommended
> fiber years
> ago and I did not listen.
> Sam DiBartolomeo in Southern CA