Hi Steve,
I bid against you (and lost) for this frame on ebay... The seller told me that this frame was from the early 1980s and originally had Campy 1010 road dropouts on the rear that were replaced at some time with Shimano track dropouts. Therefore, the frame was likely made for training or criterium and not actual track use. This is why the rear dropouts are discolored - they were never repainted or rechromed
I then emailed pics of this frame prior to auction close to Mike Fatka who was the Raleigh USA Team Manager from 82-86. Mike was the Team Manager responsible for selecting and training Raleigh Team members including all road and criterium racers (not track). He emailed me back and verified that the frame shape and colors were indeed a Raleigh Team frame. However, IT WAS NOT A FRAME THAT HE ORDERED and he could not tell me a manufacturer. Mike's guess is that the Raleigh USA Track team (another coach with other Team members) had this pre-carbon steel training frame made in the early 1980s around the time of the Levi/Raleigh Team partnership.
The seller claimed that a specific Raleigh Team rider used this frame and Mike claims this is not so! The rider he mentioned left the Raleigh Team in the late 70's - several years before this frame was made based on the colors scheme.
As far as the frame goes, it uses a 24" front wheel and standard 27" rear wheel. I assume the front fork used Campy Pista headset and hubs, etc. You may be interested in the fact that I own two brand new unbuilt 24" 36H ***tubular tire*** (not clincher) rims that easily fit this frame's front fork. I am interested in selling or trading these very hard to find brand new rims... are you interested? I will be out until Sunday evening so I may not be able to reply immediately...
Regards, Steve Neago
Cincinnati, OH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Birmingham" <sbirmingham@mindspring.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:55 PM
> Subject: [CR]Aero parts question, borderline ot
>
>
> > I got a Raleigh time trial frame recently, and I'm puzzled by some of
the
> > setup.
> > The bike seems to have been set up for Dura Ace Ax parts, but the
puzzling
> > bit is
> > the front derailleur setup, or lack of one. There's a threaded mount
where
> > the
> > brazeon should be, but there's no place to route the cable inside the
> frame.
> > The
> > brake and rear cables go through the frame but there's no hole for the
> front
> > cable.
> > Was there another device that might have been used here? like a
tensioner
> or
> > guide
> > to keep the chain from coming off?
> >
> > I'm not sure, but I belive the bike is from about 83-84, maybe a couple
> > years newer.
> > I have a picture at
> > http://www.mindspring.com/
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve Birmingham
> > Lowell, Ma
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> > [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of
> > classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:06 PM
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #1189 - 7 msgs
> >
> >
> > Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
> > classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.bikelist.org/
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
> >
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> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
> >
> >
> > CR
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Campag Gran Sport Brakes, NOS with levers.
(REClassicBikes@aol.com)
> > 2. Santa in a brown suit? LONG (Rob Hawks)
> > 3. RE: Adjustable Stems??? (Mark Bulgier)
> > 4. Re: Adjustable Stems??? (Steve Freides)
> > 5. Re: Cinetica (was adjustable stems) (Richard M Sachs)
> > 6. Regina and Sedis chains on eBay (Chuck Schmidt)
> > 7. Re: Regina and Sedis chains on eBay, part two (Richard M Sachs)
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 1
> > From: REClassicBikes@aol.com
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:22:18 EST
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: [CR]Campag Gran Sport Brakes, NOS with levers.
> >
> > When I started cycling, my mate had some of these Gransport brakes on
his
> > bike and I had to make do with Weinmann centre pulls. I never got over
> that
> > disappointment!
> >
> > For sale a boxed pair of bolt fixing Campag gransport brakes, complete
> with
> > the black cables and the levers, with black "world" logo hoods. Original
> > black cables and instructions. $110.
> >
> > Also a clement work shop tyre pressure gauge, the type with the Campag
> > chrome
> > head. $35.
> >
> > Please contact me off list.
> >
> > Regards
> > Martin Coopland
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 2
> > To: classics rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> > ibob <internet-bob@bikelist.org>
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:02:32 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Rob Hawks <rhawks@lmi.net>
> > Subject: [CR]Santa in a brown suit? LONG
> >
> > My friend had said to start looking for Santa in a Brown suit.
> > I had the tracking number, and I was tracking. The package left the
> > midwest on the 8th. The optimistic UPS delivery calculator said
> > the package would be delivered on the 14th but it didn't make it
> > to California until late that day. I tracked until it was on
> > the delivery van. I had taped instructions to leave the package
> > with a neighbor on the front door of my house. Naturally, we had
> > high winds and my wife found the note in the street when she came
> > home. The UPS note that they couldn't deliver sure stuck to the
> > door just fine.
> > One try down. On monday the delivery van showed up just before
> > my wife returned home. Two tries down. A new note on the door
> > and the third time pays for all, no? Yes. Success. Just as my wife
> > hit the driveway up the hill comes the UPS van chugging away.
> > The driver has the gall to give her grief for not being home
> > the other two days. Harumpf.
> > So the box is waiting for me when I get home at 5:30. I've
> > never seen some much bubble pack and foam tube strips on anything
> > in my life. It takes time to reveal the contents, and now the
> > garage floor is strewn with scraps of the bubble pack and used
> > tape. But there it is. My Cinelli. I can say mine, after all,
> > I had owned it once before from 1977 to 1993. I was the fourth
> > owner and now I'm the sixth owner of the bike as well. I had
> > first bought the bike from the shop manager of Allied Cycle in
> > Detroit, MI when I worked there in the late 70s. He was getting
> > married, wanted the cash and the bike was just a little too
> > large for him anyway. I had thoughts (silly ones) of getting into
> > racing. He told me he didn't know how old the bike was, probably
> > early 70s, maybe late 60s but he stressed early 70s.
> > I rode the bike as often as I could which wasn't often
> > enough. Working 60 hour weeks in the bike shop made that hard,
> > and the midwest climate eliminated much of the year anyway.
> > The only thing I changed on the bike was to put a frame pump
> > on, and swap out the rear deraileur with a newer, but used
> > campy NR. Changing the pump meant removing the campy pump
> > crown but that revealed the Reynolds decal. I don't know
> > for how long, but Cinelli used Reynolds 531 for the tubes.
> > My brother managed to lose the rear deraileur, and the pump
> > crown didn't come back with the bike this time.
> > Before I got the bike, changes had been made as well.
> > The third owner gave the aluminum fenders to a mechanic
> > as payment for doing an overhaul on the bike. Also, the
> > brakes, rumored to be Weinmann centerpulls, were swapped for newer
> > Wienmann Carrera side pulls. A Brooks pro saddle was on the
> > bike, but I had kept that and am riding it still on a 1982
> > Trek. I don't know if that was original, probably not.
> > In 1993, almost a year after moving to the Bay Area,
> > I traded the bike to a good friend of mine for a Bridgestone
> > mountain bike. I hadn't ridden the bike in several years
> > at that point, and with the hills around here I didn't see
> > that I would ride it much. I wanted to try out mountain
> > biking, heck it is a great area for it. My friend was doing
> > a little collecting and was interested in doing the restoration
> > that I didn't think I had the money for. He became owner of
> > a bike shop though, and had kids of his own so the Cinelli project
> > took a back seat to other important things (restoring an
> > old bike is peanuts, insignificant compared to seeing your
> > kids learn to walk, read, ride bikes, tell jokes). I like
> > to think that the bike was in the family still during those
> > years. It was a little private joke between us when I would
> > ask about the progress. About a year ago I had suggested that
> > if he was interested, I would like to buy it back, and
> > when we talked during the holidays at years end we agreed
> > to the transaction.
> > Last night, I checked Mark Petry's Cinelli registry,
> > but was stymied in trying to date the bike even though now
> > I had the serial number at hand. I sent him email asking if
> > he could help date the bike any better, and I also sent mail
> > to Cinelli. Who knows if that will help. Then, SMACK (sound
> > of palm hitting forehead). Doh! (I have these experiences
> > often). Idiot. I have the bike, there are other ways? The
> > thing is campy all over. I get the front wheel, remove the
> > lock nut, wipe away the grease. '65'. This morning on my
> > ride to work I realized I could have checked the crank
> > arms too, but I'm not sure if Campy dated the crank arms
> > that way, back in the 60s. But the hubs are original. The
> > fact that the BCD is 155 (the rings are 47/50. Man that will
> > hurt on the hills around here) and that the BB shell has
> > oil fittings on the top and bottom of the shell suggest the
> > bike might have been older than 1970 anyway.
> > I wish I could say that the frame is pristine, but
> > it isn't. The clamps for the cable guides on the brakes and
> > the shifters have left marks. There are a few touched up
> > nicks all around. The stays were chromed originally, but above
> > the drop outs they have gone past being dulled. The chromed
> > lugs are mostly clean except under the seat lug, there is
> > a little rust. The top tube has the paint worn away down to
> > the primer and there are a few places where rust has made the
> > paint seem cracked.
> > I know this bike isn't the rarest of the rare, but having
> > owned it once and ridden it many miles, it has huge sentimental
> > value to me. When I rode it the most, it was a carefree,
> > quite happy time of my life. I was 21, 22 years old. I was
> > working in a bike shop. I had no money, but then I had
> > no car payments (I drove a $175 1967 VW bug), and only had to
> > save enough money for college. Heck, I could pay for a full
> > term of credits with $400 at MSU, even though it was a lot
> > more than the $11.50 per credit I paid at Schoolcraft College.
> > So the bike has a little rust and isn't so shiny now.
> > When I let my beard grow, I have two bright white patches
> > that would give me away if the bald patch, crows feet and
> > spare tire didn't already. Now, I can ride the bike on rides with
> > my kids. I'm happy.
> >
> > rob hawks
> > richmond, ca
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 3
> > From: Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net>
> > To: 'Steve Freides' <steve@fridayscomputer.com>,
> > classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: RE: [CR]Adjustable Stems???
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:21:19 -0800
> >
> >
> > Steve Freides writes:
> > >
> > > Please enlighten me as to the fascination we seem to be
> > > having here with these sliding-type adjustable stems.
> > >
> > > The Look Ergostem will do everything these kinds do and much
> > > more
> >
> > For your answer look to the "C" part in "CR". Please tell me you
wouldn't
> > put one of those Look monstrosities on a classic! You might as well ask
> why
> > we are so fascinated with cable operated rim brakes when hydraulic discs
> do
> > so much more...
> >
> > Mark Bulgier
> > Seattle, Wa
> > USA
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:35:32 -0500
> > From: Steve Freides <steve@fridayscomputer.com>
> > Organization: Friday's Computer
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Adjustable Stems???
> >
> > Now, now, Mark....
> >
> > I don't envison any adjustable stem, Classic or otherwise, as a
> > permanent fixture on any bicycle, Classic or otherwise. To me they are
> > a tool for use in finding a good riding position, nothing more. As
> > such, Looks Ergostem is, in my opinion, without peer.
> >
> > To be honest, I don't find the Classic adjustable stems that have been
> > mentioned terribly attractive, whether looked at through Modern or
> > Classic eyes, and wouldn't consider keeping one on a bicycle of mine
> > unless that bicycle had to do double duty, e.g., road and time-trial.
> > (I've never been in a time-trial nor owned a TT bike, nor have I ever
> > owned, used, or ridden a bicycle with hydraulic brakes.)
> >
> > Steve Freides
> > in rainy, class-y according to some, if not class-ic, Ridgewood, NJ
> >
> >
> > Mark Bulgier wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve Freides writes:
> > > >
> > > > Please enlighten me as to the fascination we seem to be
> > > > having here with these sliding-type adjustable stems.
> > > >
> > > > The Look Ergostem will do everything these kinds do and much
> > > > more
> > >
> > > For your answer look to the "C" part in "CR". Please tell me you
> wouldn't
> > > put one of those Look monstrosities on a classic! You might as well
ask
> > why
> > > we are so fascinated with cable operated rim brakes when hydraulic
discs
> > do
> > > so much more...
> > >
> > > Mark Bulgier
> > > Seattle, Wa
> > > USA
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 5
> > To: ssmith@webb-institute.edu
> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:46:50 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Cinetica (was adjustable stems)
> > From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> >
> > cinetica was andreas cinelli's short lived firm.
> > i believe it was in existence in the middle 80s.
> > there were (to be) frames, bars/stems, frame
> > making parts, etcetera.
> > e-RICHIE
> > still have my cinetica catalogs...
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:10:16 -0500 "Sean Smith"
> > <ssmith@webb-institute.edu> writes:
> > > Anyone else have information about Cinetica? I have an interesting
> > > Cinetica
> > > Giotto handlebar/stem combo that I know nothing about. Although it
> > > is one
> > > piece, the length of the stem can be adjusted and each handlebar
> > > drop can be
> > > individually rotated. An internet search only turned up a Cinetica
> > > Giotto
> > > bike provided by Ochnser in the credits of Terminator 2. So maybe
> > > it's
> > > outside the time period of this group, but I'm still curious.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Sean Smith
> > > Glen Cove, NY
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:12:20 -0800
> > From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> > Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: [CR]Regina and Sedis chains on eBay
> >
> > More nos Regina and Sedis chains on eBay at:
> >
> >
>
http://ebay.com/
> > &include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25>
> >
> > Chuck Schmidt
> > South Pasadena, Southern California
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 7
> > To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:52:53 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Regina and Sedis chains on eBay, part two
> > From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> >
> > http://ebay.com/
> >
> > hey!
> > there's a veritable plethora of regina on ebay this week...
> > e-RICHIE
> > check out the other auctions!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:12:20 -0800 Chuck Schmidt
> > <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> writes:
> > > More nos Regina and Sedis chains on eBay at:
> > >
> > >
> >
http://ebay.com/
> > tro&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25>
> > >
> > > Chuck Schmidt
> > > South Pasadena, Southern California
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > End of Classicrendezvous Digest