----- Original Message ----- From: <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 15:06 Subject: Classicrendezvous digest, Vol 1 #1275 - 11 msgs
> Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.bikelist.org/
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
>
>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Richard Moons Lugs (Thomas Rawson)
> 2. Re: Richard Moons Lugs (Richard M Sachs)
> 3. DIRECTIONS! Hetchin's Heaven and Swap Meet Jimmy Thomson's House
(Sterling Peters)
> 4. Brass headb (Jan Heine)
> 5. Fw: Richard Moons Lugs (Thomas Rawson)
> 6. Fw: Richard Moons Lugs (Thomas Rawson)
> 7. Re: Hi-E Help?? (NortonMarg@aol.com)
> 8. Forsale posting:Had a senior moment-brain fart etc.
(jimmycue@att.net)
> 9. Re: Re: broken bike components revisited (part 387)
(NortonMarg@aol.com)
> 10. '85 Masi 54cm for trade (Mark Poore)
> 11. Re: Re: broken bike components revisited (part 387) (Tom Dalton)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Reply-To: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>,
> "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>,
> "Dale Brown" <oroboyz@aol.com>
> Cc: "Richard Moon @ Intel" <richard.moon@intel.com>
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:41:34 -0700
> Subject: [CR]Richard Moons Lugs
>
> Went back to Richard M yesterday and asked the question again.
> Indeed the picture of the single lug is a Haden. The lugs on the
> green bike with "bright lugs" are his hand made SS versions as
> described.
>
> NOW, I need someone to explain to me the difference between the
> two. There are many more pics of the green bike (it looks teal on
> the web but is green in person) on Richards website and maybe its
> the back views that reveal the difference. The detailing of the
> front - cutouts and smallish nervex pro sweeps sure look the
> same.
>
> See here:
> http://www.cwo.com/
>
> Tom Rawson
> Oakland, CA
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> To: twrawson@worldnet.att.net
> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, rocklube@adnc.com,
> oroboyz@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:44:41 -0400
> From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> Subject: [CR]Re: Richard Moons Lugs
>
> okay tom.
> you have to send red twizzlers to dale, brian,
> and me. save the postage, just send 4 lbs. to
> cycles de oro in time for the cirque!
> e-RICHIE
>
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:41:34 -0700 "Thomas Rawson"
> <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > Went back to Richard M yesterday and asked the question again.
> > Indeed the picture of the single lug is a Haden. The lugs on the
> > green bike with "bright lugs" are his hand made SS versions as
> > described.
> >
> > NOW, I need someone to explain to me the difference between the
> > two. There are many more pics of the green bike (it looks teal on
> > the web but is green in person) on Richards website and maybe its
> > the back views that reveal the difference. The detailing of the
> > front - cutouts and smallish nervex pro sweeps sure look the
> > same.
> >
> > See here:
> > http://www.cwo.com/
> >
> > Tom Rawson
> > Oakland, CA
> >
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Sterling Peters" <sterlingpeters@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Cc: SoCalClassics@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:52:33 -0700
> Subject: [CR]DIRECTIONS! Hetchin's Heaven and Swap Meet Jimmy Thomson's
House
>
> DIRECTIONS: From I-5 take route 76 to Bonsall , 1/2 mile after Bonsall
turn
> left at River Village Shopping Center on to S-13/ S.Mission Road. About 5
> miles to Winterhaven Rd. Park at Fallbrook High School Parking lot. FROM
> I-15 take Mission Road to Stage Coach Lane ( first left past Nickerson
> Nursery ) then left on Brooke Rd. ( Lutheran Church on corner)Becomes
> Winterhaven. Park in Fallbrook High Parking lot. INFO or Reservations
email
> or call Sterlingpeters@hotmail.com or 619-239-2781. Well meet about 9:00
> A.M. at the High School for our Swap Meet , then at about 9:30 we'll ride
> the few blocks to Jimmy's house.
>
> This years annual gathering of Hetchins Lovers at Jimmy Thomson's
> house in Fallbrook , Ca., ( about 50 miles North of San Diego ) will be
> held on Saturday May 11th. We will meet there ( FallBrook High ) about
9:00
> AM to admire all the beautiful Hetchins Bicycles , for good conversation ,
a
> Trunk Swap Meet , and Brunch. I NEED A HEAD COUNT SO THAT JIMMY KNOWS HOW
> MUCH FOOD TO PREPARE FOR THE GROUP! So Please RSVP me as soon as possible
(
> off the list ). After we leave Jimmy's we will go for a HILLY ride ( small
> hills ) of about 25-30 miles. Sag Wagon will pick up the stragglers. Before
> heading home we will have Dinner at a local restaurant. The theme of coarse
> is Hetchins Bicycles , or if you do not have a Hetchins , bring another
> English Marquee ( Raleigh , Bates ,
> Mercian ,Hurlow , Gillot , Ephgraves ) etc..Last year we had a nice
> gathering of 34 Hetchins Bicycles. We need people with digital cameras to
> post photos for the list.
> >> > Thank you!
> >> >
> >> > Sterling Peters
> >> >
> >> >_________________________________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Classicrendezvous mailing list
> >> >Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >> >http://www.bikelist.org/mai
lman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
> >>
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >>
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> >http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Classicrendezvous mailing list
> >Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:52:07 -0700
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> From: Jan Heine <heine@mindspring.com>
> Subject: [CR]Brass headb
>
> The Cinelli headbadge on e-bay
>
> http://ebay.com/
>
> looks to me not like a brass one, but one of the recent gold-plated
> ones. These were made for Cinelli for some "retro" or anniversary
> model. It's nice, but it's not the real thing. The actual badge (I
> have one, which Brian Baylis put on an old frame he restored for me)
> seems to be made from a very hard material, definetely not brass.
> Plus, it is a lot shinier than the old ones, and unlike brass, it
> hasn't lost its shine over the years.
>
> I have notified the seller of my concern, and I am sure he/she will
> check and rectify, if necessary
>
> Jan Heine, Seattle
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Reply-To: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:04:37 -0700
> Subject: [CR]Fw: Richard Moons Lugs
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Richard Moons Lugs
>
>
> > The offer of red twizzlers was yours
> > t
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> > To: <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> > Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>; <rocklube@adnc.com>;
> > <oroboyz@aol.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Richard Moons Lugs
> >
> >
> > > okay tom.
> > > you have to send red twizzlers to dale, brian,
> > > and me. save the postage, just send 4 lbs. to
> > > cycles de oro in time for the cirque!
> > > e-RICHIE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:41:34 -0700 "Thomas Rawson"
> > > <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > > > Went back to Richard M yesterday and asked the question
> > again.
> > > > Indeed the picture of the single lug is a Haden. The lugs
> on
> > the
> > > > green bike with "bright lugs" are his hand made SS versions
> > as
> > > > described.
> > > >
> > > > NOW, I need someone to explain to me the difference between
> > the
> > > > two. There are many more pics of the green bike (it looks
> > teal on
> > > > the web but is green in person) on Richards website and
> maybe
> > its
> > > > the back views that reveal the difference. The detailing of
> > the
> > > > front - cutouts and smallish nervex pro sweeps sure look
> the
> > > > same.
> > > >
> > > > See here:
> > > > http://www.cwo.com/
> > > >
> > > > Tom Rawson
> > > > Oakland, CA
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Reply-To: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:05:15 -0700
> Subject: [CR]Fw: Richard Moons Lugs
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Rawson" <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Richard Moons Lugs
>
>
> > Forget it Im still not sending But - if you guys make it to
> > Pasadena one of these years..........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
> > To: <twrawson@worldnet.att.net>
> > Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>; <rocklube@adnc.com>;
> > <oroboyz@aol.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Richard Moons Lugs
> >
> >
> > > okay tom.
> > > you have to send red twizzlers to dale, brian,
> > > and me. save the postage, just send 4 lbs. to
> > > cycles de oro in time for the cirque!
> > > e-RICHIE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:41:34 -0700 "Thomas Rawson"
> > > <twrawson@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > > > Went back to Richard M yesterday and asked the question
> > again.
> > > > Indeed the picture of the single lug is a Haden. The lugs
> on
> > the
> > > > green bike with "bright lugs" are his hand made SS versions
> > as
> > > > described.
> > > >
> > > > NOW, I need someone to explain to me the difference between
> > the
> > > > two. There are many more pics of the green bike (it looks
> > teal on
> > > > the web but is green in person) on Richards website and
> maybe
> > its
> > > > the back views that reveal the difference. The detailing of
> > the
> > > > front - cutouts and smallish nervex pro sweeps sure look
> the
> > > > same.
> > > >
> > > > See here:
> > > > http://www.cwo.com/
> > > >
> > > > Tom Rawson
> > > > Oakland, CA
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: NortonMarg@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:09:45 EDT
> Subject: Re: [CR]Hi-E Help??
> To: sachs@erols.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> In a message dated 4/20/02 8:36:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sachs@erols.com
> writes:
>
> << Your HiE hubs have one weirdness about them. Like Phil, they use
> cartridge bearings. Unlike Phil, you have to unlace the wheel to pull
the
> end cap/flange to replace the bearing, if it ever fails. I've never had
to
> replace one, but don't have near the mileage on them that we have on some
> Phils. >>
>
> WTB aka Wilderness Trail Bikes used to remove the ends that hold the
bearings
> in and re-machine them to accept a normal press in bearing, so that you
> didn't have to unbuild a wheel to change a bearing. You can probably find
a
> local guy to do this for you unless you'd rather send them to Jamie Swan
for
> re-lacing. The only person I've ever heard of in the 100,000+ club. What
an
> animal! Someone should turn him in to Guinness for a record.
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: jimmycue@att.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:12:58 +0000
> Subject: [CR]Forsale posting:Had a senior moment-brain fart etc.
>
> Sorry to all for posting wrong items on cr site.Will
> never happen again.Does anybody know of a site that will
> take posting for more current classic bike stuff.
> Jimmy Katynski Madison Heights Mi
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: NortonMarg@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:15:42 EDT
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: broken bike components revisited (part 387)
> To: GPVB1@cs.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> In a message dated 4/27/02 12:57:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, GPVB1@cs.com
> writes:
>
> << I think you may have just pointed out that any manufacturer's BB axle
can
> break! If you ride long enough and far enough, you may end up with a
total
> of
> zero manufacturer's axles that you will trust.
>
> IMHO, if you had an Engineer's inside view of the Automotive or other
major
> Manufacturing business and saw the details of exactly what gets sold to
the
> public, I fear you might never drive another car or use another toaster
> oven!
> Engineering and Manufacturing something for use by humans is always a
> compromise.
>
> Bottom line: any part/component/machine/thing can break. Some do fail;
the
> vast majority don't. Most (yes, not all) that break do so after hundreds
of
> thousands (or indeed millions) of cycles of use. Some break due to
exceeding
> Design loads and/or stresses. Some finally fatigue due to old age at many
> times Design life (how long does anyone think that Tullio's Engineers
> intended a 1958 Record crankarm to last?). There are a zillion other
reasons
> why something can fail. Ask Laurent Fignon if his infamous SR BB axle
> failure
> in the TdF was "catastrophic" or not. Ti (and many other "exotic"
materials)
> fail that way. One of the best things about steel is that it rarely fails
> suddenly and catastrophically. Steel is real!
>
> You may want to see Damon Rinard's website for pics. of various
> manufacturers' broken bicycle parts
> (http//pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html for cranks and
spindles,
> for example).
>
> What I noticed about the better BBs that were contemporary to and
followed
> the Campy Ti axle (I always thought that one looked too skinny to not flex
> like crazy) was that the axle diameter increased. It may not be exact, but
a
> principle of tubing is that as diameter increases, strength increases pi
> times faster than weight. Some of the cartridges used a skinny axle with
> relatively larger bearings. The ones I like have larger diameter axles and
> hence smaller bearings with a larger id. Nadax made one that was bullet
proof
> and I think a little adjustable for any play that developed in the bearing
> itself. Clearly some manufacturers paid more attention to sound
engineering
> principles than others. I have chosen carefully and have had no further
> failures and I check my parts regularly. A clean bicycle is a well
inspected
> bicycle. I may not have the lightest bbs in the world, but they're plenty
> light enough if they have alloy cups and a Ti axle, although even the
steel
> axle version isn't so heavy I won't use it. At this point in my "career"
I'm
> not riding so many miles that it's an issue, and I'm not using Fignon size
> gears. I'm not at all surprised he broke one of those early Ti axles.
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "Mark Poore" <rauler47@hotmail.com>
> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:26:08 -0400
> Subject: [CR]'85 Masi 54cm for trade
>
> Just received an 1985 Red 54cm Red Masi Nuova Strada that I bought. I
didn't
> realize that Masi measured their bikes c-t and so the bike is too small
for
> me. It is a very low mileage bike, maybe 500 miles, and is in very good
> condition with a mix of Shimano Dura Ace and 600 equipment. If you have a
> bike 56cm c-t that you might consider trading please e-mail me off list.
It
> will be at the Cirque this weekend. If no trades come up I might consider
> selling it, but more than likely I will do many sit-ups making it easier
for
> me to adapt to a more racy riding position.
>
> Mark, sunny and pleasent in W VA, Poore
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:47:15 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: broken bike components revisited (part 387)
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
>
> Just had yet another look at Ric's images of failed arms. I saw one
common denominator; all the arms looked thoroughly trashed, with lots of
dents, scratches, abrasion, and corrosion. Except for the freaky
longitudinal failure on the Campy arm (a real defect???) all these arms look
like they've been pushed too far. Another interesting aspect is that many
of the failure surfaces have black oxidiation half way across, or more.
This suggests that the cracks existed for some time prior to the
"catastrophic" failure. If the riders had their eyes open, these cracks
could be spotted before a serious incident. Instead, the owners of these
parts were pedaling around on cranks that were cracked half way through.
Naturally, the last bit fails suddenly.
> Tom
> NortonMarg@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/27/02 12:57:36 PM Pacific
Daylight Time, GPVB1@cs.com
> writes:
>
> << I think you may have just pointed out that any manufacturer's BB axle
can
> break! If you ride long enough and far enough, you may end up with a total
> of
> zero manufacturer's axles that you will trust.
>
> IMHO, if you had an Engineer's inside view of the Automotive or other
major
> Manufacturing business and saw the details of exactly what gets sold to
the
> public, I fear you might never drive another car or use another toaster
> oven!
> Engineering and Manufacturing something for use by humans is always a
> compromise.
>
> Bottom line: any part/component/machine/thing can break. Some do fail; the
> vast majority don't. Most (yes, not all) that break do so after hundreds
of
> thousands (or indeed millions) of cycles of use. Some break due to
exceeding
> Design loads and/or stresses. Some finally fatigue due to old age at many
> times Design life (how long does anyone think that Tullio's Engineers
> intended a 1958 Record crankarm to last?). There are a zillion other
reasons
> why something can fail. Ask Laurent Fignon if his infamous SR BB axle
> failure
> in the TdF was "catastrophic" or not. Ti (and many other "exotic"
materials)
> fail that way. One of the best things about steel is that it rarely fails
> suddenly and catastrophically. Steel is real!
>
> You may want to see Damon Rinard's website for pics. of various
> manufacturers' broken bicycle parts
> (http//pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html for cranks and
spindles,
> for example).
>
> What I noticed about the better BBs that were contemporary to and followed
> the Campy Ti axle (I always thought that one looked too skinny to not flex
> like crazy) was that the axle diameter increased. It may not be exact, but
a
> principle of tubing is that as diameter increases, strength increases pi
> times faster than weight. Some of the cartridges used a skinny axle with
> relatively larger bearings. The ones I like have larger diameter axles and
> hence smaller bearings with a larger id. Nadax made one that was bullet
proof
> and I think a little adjustable for any play that developed in the bearing
> itself. Clearly some manufacturers paid more attention to sound
engineering
> principles than others. I have chosen carefully and have had no further
> failures and I check my parts regularly. A clean bicycle is a well
inspected
> bicycle. I may not have the lightest bbs in the world, but they're plenty
> light enough if they have alloy cups and a Ti axle, although even the
steel
> axle version isn't so heavy I won't use it. At this point in my "career"
I'm
> not riding so many miles that it's an issue, and I'm not using Fignon size
> gears. I'm not at all surprised he broke one of those early Ti axles.
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest