Re: [CR]??Why British/French group & my want list

Example: Component Manufacturers:Cinelli

Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:00:48 -0600
To: "Jerry & Liz Moos" <>, <>, <>
From: Bicycle Classics inc <>
Subject: Re: [CR]??Why British/French group & my want list

To the contrary, I would suspect that British and French bikes may have dominated high end bike sales in the bike boom. The high end, I would assume, would encompass both full (or almost full) Campy NR bikes as well as frames that were subsequently assembled from frame and group. Remember that Raleigh (very British) and Peugeot with PX-10's and the like pumped out huge volumes of bikes. The Italian legends while popular never had huge numbers. An exception might be Bianchi, but even they didn't have a huge market share.

Now in agreement - I think that lumping British and French together mearly because they are not Italian may be the logic behind the British/French group - but that doesn't make that a good reason to lump them together. French bikes, especially the touring bikes, are a very unique beast with very unique characteristics that are very different than their British counterparts. The overlaps do exist, but they are relatively weak. Harden hubs and MaxiCar are interestingly similar - and Jack Taylor did make some bikes in the French mold. Also, the president of the French touring association once had a side business importing British bits such as Brooks saddles and Harden hubs into France. But these connections are weak and interesting because they were the exception.

Mike Kone in Boulder CO

At 06:09 PM 5/20/02 -0500, Jerry & Liz Moos wrote:
>I think what French and British bikes have in common is that they aren't
>Italian. Italian bikes with Campy equipment so dominated the upper end of
>the bike boom in the US, that many of our members remeber Masis, DeRosas or
>Colnagos as the bike they coveted but couldn't afford in their youths and
>thus their preference for collecting them now. My liking for French and
>British bikes I put down to being a contrarian. For the UK members,
>interest in British bikes is rather obvious, while interest in French bikes
>and equipment may be connected with what seems to be the historically
>greater availability of Fench vs Italian bikes and components in UK.
>Jerry Moos
>Houston, TX
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bicycle Classics inc" <>
>To: <>; <>
>Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 11:06 PM
>Subject: Re: [CR]??Why British/French group & my want list
>> As a serious French bike fan, I am perplexed at why the combination of
>> British and French in one group. I love British bikes too, but British
>> bikes are very different than French bikes - the essence of the important
>> French bikes, as Jan Heine has elaborated on, is the notion of a
>> "Constructeur" - or the building of a complete bike as opposed to just
>> supplying a frame. Furthermore, the focus on British frames is much
>> different than that of the French - the French don't go for ornate lugs or
>> very unorthodox frames. Also, the British often focus on roadster bikes,
>> but the French had a very different way of addressing similar needs.
>> The upshot is that if one is going to do something well, I can't
>> why the focus would be on two very divergent topics, especially since in
>> experience the British fans are often very different than the French fans.
>> Yes, I could also argue that there are similarities between French and
>> British bikes, but so what? All bikes in many ways are very similar - and
>> quite different at the same time.
>> Perhaps some of my comments are self serving - at some point myself and/or
>> perhaps Jan Heine might do something French specific - and of course if
>> someone wanted to do a great job of it before we get around to it that
>> saves us work. Any major web pressence, though, would be linked to Dales
>> site - and I hope that anyone considering building up their own web
>> pressance does so in a way that compliments and helps the Classic
>> site.
>> Bikes on my want list in order of desire -
>> A.Maury - full option tourer 1950's model with shifter built into brake
>> lever like ergo - the machine shop master.
>> Reyhand - a mens version of the ladies one that was on ebay (and at the
>> Kansas City swap meet awhile back) - a bike poo pooed on this list but in
>> reality, I believe, was the most significant french bicycle to change
>> in the United States in the past several years.
>> Narcise - the bike that unseated Reyhand as perhaps the premier French
>> tourer - had help from a guy named Rene Herse along the way.
>> Mike Kone in Boulder CO
>> At 02:06 PM 5/19/02 GMT, wrote:
>> >We've had an encouraging response to the idea to set
>> >up a group for British and French bike fans.
>> >
>> >There are around 30 people keen to contribute to and
>> >benefit from a sharing of information and literature
>> >about British and French bikes.
>> >
>> >Bob Reid is now working on a website where as much
>> >stuff as possible will be made available for any
>> >interested parties.
>> >
>> >Although it was clear enough in my original post,
>> >it's maybe worth repeating for the hard of
>> >understanding that THIS IS NOT A BIKE LIST.
>> >
>> >Chuck, give that a moment to sink in and, if there's
>> >any part of it you still don't understand, let me
>> >know and I'll talk you through it ;-)
>> >
>> >I'll email everyone who expressed an interest in a
>> >day or two with more details on how the group might
>> >develop. Comments and suggestions (off list to Bob or
>> >me) would be most welcome.
>> >
>> >Thanks to all those who want to get involved.
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Bruce
>> >
>> >Bruce Robbins
>> >Angus
>> >Scotland
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------
>> >You too can have your own email address from Eurosport.
>> >