John:
As much as It may pain me to say this (stop grinning Chuck...), Chuck is 100% spot-on here (although I know all too well that his "style" grates on us sometimes - people from CA are just different!)
I think you took things the wrong way, especially Dale's post.
Chas: I think you may have misunderstood me. I wasn't dissing Mario's art, or saying all of those others were his equal (I may have been a little hasty in my list formation). I'd pay serious dough tomorrow for the right Confente. I do agree with what Dale said about there being a short list of folks with that compulsion and passion for detail required in creating the "ne plus ultra" of functional bicycle art.
Tom: If I could get a mint Confente in my size at the current market price, I'd ride it, not hang it on the wall. To be sure, I would pamper it, and ride it on dry, sunny days, but that's what I do with many of my bikes / cars / cameras / etc. I pamper 'em, but I don't baby 'em. I like them to last as close to my lifetime as possible.
I'm not a big fan of reserve prices either, but c'est la vie. I use them on major items. Whether we like it or not, under ideal conditions, eBay is the world's biggest marketplace. It is heavily tipped in favor of the sellers (no surprise there - eBay works on a percentage of sales - more sales equals more profits), but there are still things that we can do as bidders to avoid paying too much (excercise restraint, be fully informed and aware of the value of what we are looking at / bidding on, etc.).
You are certainly entitled to own / use / collect (or not) whatever bikes you wish. Heck, my "collection" is probably one of the more ragtag of the CR list. I think there is a period of time during which any collection "matures," if I may use that term. I'm currently trying to focus mine, but every time I see a particularly interesting bike in my size come up for sale, I start rationalizing.....
Maybe I can settle on one or two per country of frame origin? I've got England, Italy, France, Switzerland, Belgium, USA, Spain, and Mexico covered already....
Regards,
Greg Parker A2 MI USA
Chuck S. wrote:
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 15:39:00 -0700
> From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Confente or Why Should I Care!?
>
> "J.Dunn" wrote:
> >
> > > Homework assignment for those who think a bike is just a bike.
> >
> > While you're doing your homework here's a couple more words to
> contemplate.
> >
> > ELITISM
> > 1 : leadership or rule by an elite
> > 2 : the selectivity of the elite; especially : SNOBBERY 1 <elitism in
> > choosing new members>
> > 3 : consciousness of being or belonging to an elite
> >
> > SNOB
> > one who tends to rebuff, avoid, or ignore those regarded as inferior b :
> one
> > who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste
> >
> > John Dunn in Boise.
> > Don't ever think you know what's right for the other person. He might
> start
> > thinking he knows what's right for you.-Paul Williams, `Das Energi'
>
> Sorry if my postings struck you as the height of snobbery and elitism,
> John. They were not meant that way.
>
> The point is that when someone states that they don't get why some on
> this list make a big deal about bike aesthetics (almost like
> "furkristsakes it's just a bike"), then I think it is time for some
> introspection on that person's part.
>
> All this stuff about Confente has been discussed ad nauseum on this list
> already. Has someone been sleeping in class?
>
> Chuck "Got my Confente when he was a nobody; who knew?" Schmidt
> SoPas, SoCal
>
>
>
> -
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> From: TNyzio@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:47:28 EDT
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Market Values (Tom Nyzio)
>
> Jim Cunningham did a fine job of sharing his thoughts on Mario Confente and
> talking up the eBay auction, but I always thought that "market value" was
> what the market would bear, not a reserve set by a seller. When, as a
> younger man, I worked as a stone setter in the jewelry industry, I always
> thought of myself as a craftsman, not an artist. Art was something you
> looked at. The work of a craftsman was not only be appreciated for its
> beauty, but was something one could use. In the present case, I guess it's
> better to ignore the purpose of Confente's work, refer to it as "art" and
> cherish it for its "aura", since as the work of a craftsman, it would hold
> real value for only those who by coincidence would match the exact
> dimensions
> of the original customer (sorta like buying a used bowling ball). Everyone
> else who could afford the Confente would be better served (except in regard
> to ego) by becoming patrons of framebuilders who still practice their
> craft.
>
>
> I imagine that I've even pissed off Mr. Ives with the above blasphemy.
>
> Yours,
> Tom "yeah, so what if my 3V is made outta True Temper" Nyzio
> (Masi 3v, Gran Crit, Pista; 3Rensho Katana S)