I: [CR] tapers and grease (drifting of aluminum on steel)

(Example: Framebuilding:Paint)

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 01:07:13 -0500
From: "The Maaslands" <TheMaaslands@comcast.net>
Subject: I: [CR] tapers and grease (drifting of aluminum on steel)
To: Classic Rendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>


Andrew,

As your experience seems to be quite different from most other list members, could your experience not be related to the mechanic doing the installation? I have installed hundreds of headsets and adjusted thousands of manufacturer-installed ones and have seen less than a handful ever come back with loosening. In those few cases, the problem was invariably explained by out of tolerance material or other problems. Things such as steer tubes which have had the threads recut when new, lockrings without the tab or with a French-style sqaured side instead of a groove and vice versa. The grooves and or flats on the steer tube are also often very approximate, having been made with a file or other unsophisticated implement. I believe that most people involved in the bike business can confirm that we have all been known to make a few knucklehead errors and it is through these errors that we learn and double check our work the next time. I expect that this is what happened with your headsets and the set screw.

A few examples of this are: - A colleague (My ego won't let me own up to this myself!) tried to fit a 27.2 seatpost into a Columbus Aelle frame. Only after a massive amount of reaming did he realize that it would have been better to first measure the size and consult Sutherlands. A smaller seatpost would have fit perfectly and was called for in this case. - Someone else I know very well built a frame and inserted the seattube the wrong way around, therefore with the butting at the seatlug end instead of the BB end. The frame therefore now has what effectively is a straigth gauge seat tube.

Lastly, your comment about stronger bearings puzzles me. If the ball bearings were stronger, would that not lead to more denting of the races? As the ball bearings do not get dented or deformed, what makes them weaker?

Steven Maasland
Moorestown, NJ


----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Gillis
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [CR] tapers and grease (drifting of aluminum on steel)



> Chuck, et al:
>
> In college (1977 or so), I had overhauled a NR rear derailleur and had
> greased the limit screws with Phil Wood grease. After the first rear wheel
> catastrophe (chain in spokes), I recall re-verifying that the upper limit
> screw wouldn't stay put when it was greased. I subsequently had no drift
> when I overhauled the NR RD and used oil instead.
>
> Similarly, in September of 1979, the headset on my new Pinarello was an
> aluminum Edco which loosened and dented (brinnelled) when I was riding thru
> Portuguese Bend in Palos Verdes (old rutted roads). I recall that there was
> a keyed locknut in that installation. The Edco headset was only a few weeks
> old (I'm sure it was originally tight) when it loosened up and was ruined.
>
> Afterwards I had a Chris King headset installed, which did not use a keyed
> lockwasher (OEM setup). This one also would also loosen up, but due to the
> stronger bearings it was not ruined. I then overhauled the headset and used
> Phil Wood oil and I have not had any drift since then.
>
> What can I say? The drift sure seemed consistent to me.
>
> Andrew Gillis (Long Beach, CA)
>
>
> > In over 25 years of using grease on threads I've never experienced any
> > of the problems you have had. Never had an aluminum headset "drift" on
> > a steerer tube (that's what the locknut is for) and never had a Nuovo
> > Record or any other derailleur lose its adjustment. Campagnolo's
> > derailleurs have used springs to keep the screws secure in their place
> > and I have never had one back out.
> >
> > Oil or grease keeps the exposed BB axle from rusting ;)
> >
> > Chuck Schmidt
> > SoPas, SoCal
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________

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