RE: [CR]chrome

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

From: "John Price" <jprice@2-10.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: RE: [CR]chrome
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:14:26 -0600


Polished copper - now that would make an interesting looking bike frame (at least until it tarnished).

John Price

Denver, CO

-----Original Message----- From: Jim Merz [mailto:jimmerz@qwest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:59 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: FW: [CR]chrome

On a new frame the polishing does not remove much from the frame tubes. Normally the copper plating acts as kind of a filler, it goes on to fill little flaws. Then it gets polished again after the copper. So any little problems get fixed with copper, not the original steel material. But if the frame has been rusty or has poor surface finish for any other reason and the polisher has to take the steel down to get a smooth finish, a large percentage of the tube wall can go away.

How much weight does the plating add? It depends on the plating thickness, some platers add a lot of copper in order to make it easier to polish. The nickel and chrome layers are normally very thin. I don't remember the typical increase for chrome plated frames, but it is ounces, not pounds.

Some comments on the list have been that stainless drops should be used. I have used these. I built frames for Spence Wolf and sometimes he wanted Art Stump dropouts. They are harder to braze, silver however works OK. But I don't like using a material that is much weaker than forged drops. Stainless that has been investment cast is even weaker than wrought stainless material, and has very poor elongation. Even Campagnolo 1010 dropouts crack on the right side after so many miles, I liked the forged Shimano dropouts as they were made from CrMo.

Jim Merz Bainbridge Is. WA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of David Feldman Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:40 AM To: goodrichbikes; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]chrome

When talking about chrome on classic bikes, is anyone taking into account the heavier tube walls on older frame tubing? Does it matter? .1mm=.004--that's how much thinner the midsection on, say, a Deda ZeroUno tube is compared to the same point on Columbus SL tube. How much metal
can
polishing remove?
David Feldman
Vancouver, WA


----- Original Message -----
From: goodrichbikes
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: [CR]chrome



> I think this discussion about chrome illustrates the differences of
> perspective. I can't speak for everyone that has contributed some I'm going
> to generalize. The framebuilders that have posted see chrome and it's
> challenges through the eyes of framebuilders. Others that have posted see
> chrome through the eyes of consumers and collectors. Both perspectives are
> valid but it appears to me that the two aren't speaking about the same
> thing. Both are talking about how the chrome looks but the consumers are
> looking at a macro level while framebuilders are looking at micro level. As
> a framebuilder, I see chrome at a micro level. Brian Baylis was talking
> about polishing is the most critical part of chroming. I think some people
> think this means how shiny the finish is. Polishing does that but also it
> removes material. Done correctly, it's not an issue. Done poorly, nice
> little details can be blurred and/or worst of all cause a frame to fail.
>
> I think consumer/collectors have been comparing chrome's longevity as a
> barometer for judging quality. While longevity is part of the equation,
> polishing is another part. From the front door of my shop, I can throw
> stone and hit six platers. They all do good work. The chrome sticks and is
> shiny but these people do bumpers and other thick and flat objects. These
> parts are easy to polish and not ruin. When I've shown them frames to be
> chromed, none of them wanted to touch it. I think this is why Richard Sachs
> needed to pay so much for the chrome from JB. There are very few platers
> that want the hassle and fewer able to do a great job.
>
> IMHO, the Italians historically have done a lot of chrome on bikes that held
> up reasonably well but lacked the finesse that is demanded today.
>
> Curt Goodrich
> Minneapolis, MN
>
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