Re: [CR]re: pogliaghi on ebay,,,,,,messy

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli:Laser)

From: <Bikerdaver@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:01:43 EDT
Subject: Re: [CR]re: pogliaghi on ebay,,,,,,messy
To: chasds@mindspring.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


Charles- Having owned a '79 Pog, I disagree with both the gibberish ad on Ebay and with your response as well, but for different reasons. Firstly, How in the heck does this seller know that, "The frame are build by Sante Pogliaghi himself"? Additionally, this statement is pure creative invention: "and he finished in the early eighties, this are one of the last original Italcorse frames,,,,,,,,,,,,,,handbuild by himself." Sante took to pushing up daisies in Feb 1981. If he finished the bike in the early 80s, beyond '81, Sante should be crowned the world's greatest builder, being able to pin/braze/file and finish a bike frame while contained in a coffin some 6 feet under the ground. Was he buried with a brazing torch or what? Plus, I bet he got pretty hungry because its equally difficult to send food, sandwiches and the like, to someone buried dead as he was. However, he did have the foresight to sell the Pog name to Rossin several months, (late 1980) before meeting his own maker. Here's where thing get fuzzy. I was once told that "only" Pogs with Diamond cut-outs on the lugs were "true" Pogs. My hands-on experience contradicts this. I disagree that the decals are "stick-on, vinyl graphics". Like the Ebay seller's assertions, I can think of no way that anyone can determine that decals are vinyl stick-ons over the Internet, let alone being separated by thousands of miles. I have seen mid-70 Pogs with both the "diamonds" and the stylized "SP" fork crowns. This is not unusual since Sante only had shop oversight since the early 70s, giving actual frame construction to his protégées well before Rossin came around. I guess the most accurate conjecture any one can come up when faced with a dilemma as presented in this Ebay Pog, is that you Can NOT Tell. However, to read something more into it as the Ebay seller does, only raises a red flag on his understanding of his wares, and hence: Caveate Emptor. By the way, if I get to see Sante at that big velodrome in the sky before you do, I will inform him as to the big mess he needlessly created before he took leave. Cheers, Dave Anderson Cut Bank MT

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- I'd argue that Pogi now on ebay is not a *real* Pogi. Too many details are too modern...and most heinous, imho, it has those awful stick-on, vinyl graphics.

Well, ok, I suppose it'd be a real pogi if it came from Sante's shop...but did it? It looks like a very late iteration of the frame to me in any event.

Can someone here confirm: A) when Sante Pogliaghi died? and, B) when was his name/shop taken over by Rossin, or Basso, or whoever it was back then? (Basso owns the name now..)

Charles "like my Pogis to be 30 years old, or older" Andrews SoCal

,one of the best italien frame builder.He worked in Milano and he finished in the early eighties,this are one of the last original Italcorse frames(size 56cm,toptube 56cm,all measured from center to center),handbuild by himself.Columbus tubes,handfiled lugs,perfect finish.Framenumber 12743,build around 1980.The frame are completed with Campagnolo Rekord /Super Rekord equipment,stronglight headset,cinelli stem and Handlebar.It is upgradet with some black parts,the typical style of the early eighties.The bike are a little bit scratchy and dirty but a fantastic rideable collecter piece.Only the brake lever hoods are poor.The frame are straight and good conditioned,not damaged.A rare chance to get an original handbuild Pogliaghi.