[CR]Re: Hidden Inventory::: JIT vs Ebay Misrepresentation

(Example: Production Builders:Pogliaghi)

From: <Bikerdaver@aol.com>
Subject: [CR]Re: Hidden Inventory::: JIT vs Ebay Misrepresentation
To: CYCLESTORE@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:34:32 EST

Gilbert et al. I totally understand your position. In business operation class, they call that JIT, (just in time) inventory. Championed by Ed Demming and his Japanese protégés. I think as is often stated, ebay becomes the place where such concepts are bastardized beyond ethical/legal recognition. Just my 2 cents. Cheers, Dave Anderson Cut Bank (winter is here) MT

In a message dated 11/17/02 2:47:12 PM PST, CYCLESTORE@aol.com writes: Hello Jan, Steve and all, Selling inventory you don't have. I think we would be suprised how many times some of the big mail order houses

do this and it seems almost all manufacturers do this as a general course of business everyday.

Most listee's would be suprised to learn that I have seen lots of the big bicycle mail houses selling things in this fashion on a day to day basis and I think this should actually be considered normal procedure and the large ticket in stock (ON THEIR PREMISES) items should be considered exceptions in many cases.

I see nothing inherently wrong with selling something not in your personal inventory as long as your supply is reliable and delivery somewhat predictable. The problems start when these two elements are lacking.

I import specialty bicycles from Europe regularly. It is very expensive with lots of overt and hidden up front costs. All my inventory is heavily customized for me or my customers. While I stock what I can I am actively selling on a daily basis. The factories I deal with have no surplus stock. It's a you buy, we will build arrangement. To keep costs down, quickens delivery and get the best price I pay for most of my product in advance and the saving are passed along to the ultimate owner. I have several credit lines with the manufacturers and banks but do not rely on them very much as bank charges on their end increases their cost (and mine and my customers prices) and bank charges on my end are very erosive to my puny bottom line.

Do I sell what I do not have? Every day, Do I sell what I can deliver? Every day. D0 you pay in advance when you deal with a large mail-order concern that

has not their advertised inventory? Most certainly sometimes, do you know that before or after the transaction, rarely. Many seem to be less than willing for an accurate disclosure.

I recently received a very limitedly available (1 in the USA) frameset from a

major mail order concern in the bicycle industry that stated it was in their warehouse ready to ship. They ship in stock parts overnight if needed so how suprised were we when an hour after the customer bought the frame (not through us but in our store on our phone), the rare item disappeared from inventory at the importers. Shipping departure time for the in stock frame next day departure started 6 days later and arrived 11 days after the transaction began. It was in a factory sealed box so no time delay in prep before shipping was performed. I call back was explained away as processing time.

Deliberate misrepresentation is another matter; full disclosure however, where does it start and where does it end. I've had some customers demand I chase all over gods green earth for something obscure (none of the Cr's) and demand I supply everything from my mother's maiden name to my tax returns before they would want to transact business over the phone. All this and they

will not supply a last name or phone number to me to even contact them or file the request, "I'll call back", they say. I tell em don't bother, I mean unless there is some legitimate concern I don't have time for foolishness. At

our shop we have a constant backlog of real business and people that transact

business in a business like fashion, and supply real name, address and phone numbers (personal information we do not sell or share). Endo rant! Gilbert Anderson

The North Road Bicycle Company ( lots of stock, sometimes on hand ) your bicycle outfitter 519 W. North St. Raleigh, NC 27603 USA ph toll free in USA :800/321-5511 Local ph: 919/828-8999 E-Mail: cyclestore@aol.com

In a message dated 11/17/02 10:25:39 AM, classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org writes: << Message: 8 From: "Steve Neago" <questor@cinci.rr.com> To: "Jan Heine" <heine@mindspring.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Selling inventory that isn't - unethical ebay brokers/sellers Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:20:13 -0500

<<Selling inventory that isn't: As long as the seller makes it clear that this is the case, I don't have a problem with it.>> I believe that ebay does have a problem with broker/seller auctions based on speculation where the broker does not have legal title nor authorization to put the item up for auction. I also view speculation auctions as deceptive to the potential buyer because they make available the bidders ebay name and possibly address contact info when they bid on an item that may not really available. This provides the unethical broker/seller with a marketing contact list without selling the item and without paying full ebay fees for future sales based on their names obtained through ebay. There are unethical sellers who place a highly desired auction item on ebay, set an extremely high reserve price that is not disclosed and likely not met, then troll for ebay bidder names to add to their third party sales mail list as the auction progresses. Other unethical sellers also use this high reserve amount method to avoid ebay auction fees on a high-bidder below reserve auction by contacting the bidders after the auction has ended and offering to sell the original or similar items outside of ebay to avoid ebay fees. Buyers who choose to go this route risk possible deception with no recourse for help from ebay, limited as it may be, because the transaction was completed outside of ebay. The following is taken from the current ebay user agreement... Ebay Listing and Selling.

5.1 Listing Description. You must be legally able to sell the item(s) you list for sale on our site. You must describe your item and all terms of sale on the listing page of our site. Your listings may only include text descriptions, graphics, pictures and other content relevant to the sale of that item. Regards, Steve Neago "Getting use to cold weather in Cincinnati, OH"


----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Heine
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 2:24 PM
Subject: [CR]Selling inventory that isn't


Selling inventory that isn't: As long as the seller makes it clear that this is the case, I don't have a problem with it. When I go to a bike shop to buy something, they often special-order it. If somebody finds a stash of stuff, but is afraid to buy because they don't know what the market value is, I don't mind if they propose the items, as long as they say "I think I can get this. Are you insterested?" Of course, publicly advertising something for sale that you don't own is a different story.>>