Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods/ Forgeries/ Reproductions...


Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer

To: jac33@tron.arts.cornell.edu
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 13:52:56 -0500
Subject: Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods/ Forgeries/ Reproductions...
From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>


uh, okay. never mind. e-RICHIE

On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:17:56 -0600 (CST) Jonathan Cowden <jac33@tron.arts.cornell.edu> writes:
> Hi Richard. Near as I can tell, some in the CR group feel that one of
> the
> individuals creating Hetchins machines is producing forgeries, while
> the
> other is creating the real McCoy (neither a forgery nor a
> reproduction).
> The one Hetchines advertisement I've seen claims that Hetchins is
> back (C
> Plus), implying that the lineage is intact and the new Hetchins are
> just
> like the old ones. The seller on ebay took a different tack with
> the
> Campy hoods. He didn't advertise them as "real," didn't claim that
> "the
> real Campy is back," and let the market set the price for the hoods.
> I'm
> not fully up to speed on the price of the original world logo hoods,
> but
> I think they hover in the 80 dollar range, which is about twice what
> the
> seller got for his repros (one offs?). Jon
>
> Jon Cowden
> Ithaca, NY
>
> ps How about mating all of your beautiful bikes with real (quill)
> stems?! :)
>
> On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Richard M Sachs wrote:
>
> > sorry fellows.
> > i can't seperate the issues as they relate to this:
> > several months about there was a firestorm over
> > the hetchins 'issue'. are the two firms which now
> > produce 'hetchins' forging or reproducing?
> > yeah-i know...
> > no one ever said the campy-hoods-on-ebay
> > were, in fact, forgeries. i'm just seeing some
> > overlap on the issue at hand.
> > e-RICHIE
> > telai da corsa
> > dans l'atelier
> > on the 1st floor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:15:59 -0700 "Steven L. Sheffield"
> > <stevens@veloworks.com> writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > for·ger·y
> > > n. pl. for·ger·ies
> > > 1. The act of forging, especially the illegal production of
> > > something
> > > counterfeit.
> > > 2. Something counterfeit, forged, or fraudulent.
> > > 3. A copy that is presented as the original [syn: imitation,
> > > counterfeit]
> > > 4. criminal falsification by making or altering an instrument
> with
> > > intent
> > > to defraud
> > >
> > >
> > > re·pro·duc·tion
> > > n.
> > > 1. The act of reproducing or the condition or process of being
> > > reproduced.
> > > 2. Something reproduced, especially in the faithfulness of its
> > > resemblance
> > > to the form and elements of the original: a fine reproduction
> of
> > > a
> > > painting by Matisse.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a vast difference between a forgery and a reproduction.
>
> > > The
> > > gentleman who is making these hoods is not passing them off as
> > > original ...
> > > so they are not forgeries.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Steven L. Sheffield
> > > stevens at veloworks dot com
> > > veloworks at mac dot com
> > > aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash
> > > double-you
> > > double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: "Steve Neago" <questor@cinci.rr.com>
> > > > Reply-To: "Steve Neago" <questor@cinci.rr.com>
> > > > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:02:10 -0500
> > > > To: <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>, "'Jim Cole'"
> <jcole@memphis.edu>,
> > > > <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> > > >
> > > > A "forgery" (your negative conotation) depends on the view of
> the
> > > beholder
> > > > and depends on why the reproduction was made in the first
> place.
> > > >
> > > > An ultra-purist with a strictly show bike would claim these
> are a
> > > forgery
> > > > yet a person with a "rider" bike would shout with glee at
> > > obtaining viable
> > > > replacement part. Criticizing repro parts as "forgeries" is
> > > getting anal.
> > > >
> > > > It all depends on the buyer's perspective. For a rare and
> > > practically
> > > > unobtainable rubber part to be made available at a reasonable
> price
> > > is OK by
> > > > me... no need to stamp repro parts when it fits my bike!
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Steve Neago
> > > > "Just back from 85 degree Florida vacation to 2 inches of snow
> in
> > > Cincinnati
> > > > OH"
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dave Patrick" <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
> > > > To: "'Jim Cole'" <jcole@memphis.edu>;
> > > <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:01 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Well, I'd better add to this: I don't think duplicating Campy
>
> > > hoods is too
> > > >> difficult to achieve by most "handy" CR members. Part of my
>
> > > background
> > > >> involves lining up protyping of various designs etc., and I
> think
> > > that the
> > > >> necessary products for molds and castings are obtainable if
> one
> > > wanted to
> > > >> "duplicate" this individual's results. I have a strong
> suspicion
> > > that
> > > > we'll
> > > >> be seeing quite a few "bootleg" Campy hoods in the very near
>
> > > future, which
> > > >> will then result in emails on this site over how to detect
> "the
> > > real
> > > > thing"
> > > >> from the "forgeries". Are we having fun yet?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Dave Patrick
> > > >> Chelsea, Michigan
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> > > >> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Jim
>
> > > Cole
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:53 PM
> > > >> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > > >> Subject: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Looks like the auction has ended for those reproduction Campy
>
> > > world logo
> > > >> hoods. The final price was $43.00. Guess that's about 1/2
> or
> > > what the
> > > >> original article brings on ebay these days. Sure hope more
> > > become
> > > >> available.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1816570759
> > > >>
> > > >> Jim Cole
> > > >> Memphis, TN