Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results - Legal Issues for repro logos


Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer

From: "Steve Neago" <questor@cinci.rr.com>
To: <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <002e01c1dd95$1d7420e0$2200005a@WinProxy>
Subject: Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results - Legal Issues for repro logos
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:20:45 -0500


Hi Dave,

No high blood pressure on my part per your response, just concern that some list members imply that making repro parts is dishonest in some way, when I do not believe this is the case with the facts at hand. Some CR members seem to believe only the OEM or so-called "experts" can recreate vintage parts. I disagree because repro parts that are not made anymore and not subject to federal trademark or patent laws are fair game to anyone who wants to make duplicate parts. The legal question that needs to answered about the Campy hoods is not how they are made nor what they are made of, but solely whether the Campy old-style logo displayed on the hoods is protected by current registration with the federal trademark and patents office.

Prehaps some of my ire is raised about claims of "forgery" or "fakes" because I personally make repro Raleigh decals for Super Course, Competition, International, Professional, and Team Pro framesets where I have been criticised by some CR members that my EXACT duplicate decals should have identifying marks they are repro placed on the decal itself and that I am breaking the federal law in some remote way. This attitude by critics without researching the facts ignores the goal and intent to make an exact decal repro that faithfully recreates the look and feel of the original in deference to the original Raleigh company.

Raleigh USA has been bought/sold/franchised by several holding companies since these decals were produced over 25 years ago, and Raleigh's originals decal designs were destroyed over 20 years ago. My subsequent attempts for 25 years to obtain these decals were met with Raleigh Customer Support in the USA and England claiming "we don't have and have never seen those" responses. Like the guy reproducing the Campy hoods, I have stepped up to the plate and now offer factory duplicate parts (decals) that the OEM manufacturer ignores and chooses not to reproduce for whatever reasons.

Regarding legal technicalities, I am legally protected by the federal trademark facts that Raleigh never renewed its US trademark name or logo for its brands in the USA that I reproduce . I have performed an extensive US trademark search using legal librarians services at my former company that detail why I have free and unemcumbered use of the Raleigh logos. Therefore my decal renderings are protected by legal "freedom of speech" as artistic interpretations and exact reproductions of originals where Raleigh International abandoned its trademark rights long ago.

If I choose to file the $5000 USD fee per logo, I could even re-register and trademark the Raleigh name for myself, but having to defend the trademark in court could be expensive. And finally from a business standpoint, I have legal grounds to make decal repros, but whomever owns the currently registered Raleigh USA logos could sue me and ask for a court determination of logo ownership. I would likely win, but would have to expended significant amounts of legal fees to defend my rights.

I feel that the guy who makes repro gum hoods and I stand together to make repro parts that fill a void that manufacturers choose to ignore. If what we make is legal and ethical, what's your problem with what we do?

Regards, Steve Neago "Adjusting from Florida heat to Cincinnati cold!"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Patrick"
To: "'Steve Neago'" ; "'Jim Cole'"


<jcole@memphis.edu>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: RE: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results


> Wow, Steve. Your blood pressure is getting up there a bit. What this
> person is doing by creating these repro hoods is, by definition, a forgery.
> You've assigned the negative connotations yourself, which perhaps says
> something right there. And come on, the person who is reproducing these
> hoods, whether you agree with it or not (which I'm not taking a stance on
> either way), is infringing on the Campagnolo trade mark and Campagnolo trade
> name and does not have the right to do so. Perhaps, in the future, you
> should take a deep breath and relax before you accuse someone of being anal,
> as I think this is really not necessary and not quite in the spirit of the
> CR site. But hey, maybe your behavior is just due to the extreme changes in
> climate you've recently encountered and your neurological functions aren't
> quite up to par.
>
>
> Dave Patrick
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Steve Neago
> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:02 AM
> To: Patrick@aardvark-pro.com; 'Jim Cole'; Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
>
>
> A "forgery" (your negative conotation) depends on the view of the beholder
> and depends on why the reproduction was made in the first place.
>
> An ultra-purist with a strictly show bike would claim these are a forgery
> yet a person with a "rider" bike would shout with glee at obtaining viable
> replacement part. Criticizing repro parts as "forgeries" is getting anal.
>
> It all depends on the buyer's perspective. For a rare and practically
> unobtainable rubber part to be made available at a reasonable price is OK by
> me... no need to stamp repro parts when it fits my bike!
>
> Regards, Steve Neago
> "Just back from 85 degree Florida vacation to 2 inches of snow in Cincinnati
> OH"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Patrick" <Patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
> To: "'Jim Cole'" <jcole@memphis.edu>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
>
>
> > Well, I'd better add to this: I don't think duplicating Campy hoods is too
> > difficult to achieve by most "handy" CR members. Part of my background
> > involves lining up protyping of various designs etc., and I think that the
> > necessary products for molds and castings are obtainable if one wanted to
> > "duplicate" this individual's results. I have a strong suspicion that
> we'll
> > be seeing quite a few "bootleg" Campy hoods in the very near future, which
> > will then result in emails on this site over how to detect "the real
> thing"
> > from the "forgeries". Are we having fun yet?
> >
> >
> > Dave Patrick
> > Chelsea, Michigan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org
> > [mailto:classicrendezvous-admin@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Jim Cole
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:53 PM
> > To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: [CR]Campy Repro Hoods Results
> >
> >
> > Looks like the auction has ended for those reproduction Campy world logo
> > hoods. The final price was $43.00. Guess that's about 1/2 or what the
> > original article brings on ebay these days. Sure hope more become
> > available.
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1816570759
> >
> > Jim Cole
> > Memphis, TN