[CR]RE: Debunking time again -misreading the M-lad?

Example: History
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Tom Dalton" <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <C102531FB711D411B5B90060B0A468760DADC7@mail.bulgier.net>
Subject: [CR]RE: Debunking time again -misreading the M-lad?

Was the Monkeylad not stating that two otherwise identical bikes made with different steel alloys would ride the same? If we're talking tubes of the same OD/ID profile, theory supports his argument. If he is stating that PG carbon steel in a gauge that is standard for that material is the same as DB 531 in a "standard" gauge for that material, then he's making a bold statement. I don't think this is what he was trying to assert, but I guess I'm too lazy to go back through all the posts. Monkeylad, wall thickness influences ride, you know that, right? Tom Dalton Bethlehem, PA Mark Bulgier <mark@bulgier.net> wrote: Monkeylad wrote:
> So far by reading the posts most of the people that actually build
> and work on bikes for a living seem to side with me to one degree or
> another.

Well I was staying out of it, as this is one of those arguments that will never end. But if truth is to be determined by a vote, I guess I have to side with Joe B-Z. There is absolutely a ride quality difference between heavy plain gauge tubing and light butted tubing.

I can't prove it to a skeptic, but I have proven it to my own satisfaction, riding bikes with different tubes but the same wheels and other parts.

I assumed there would not be a discernable difference, because of the fact of the extreme vertical rigidity of any diamond frame, so the differences I perceived weren't reinforcing a cherished belief - on the contrary, they had to change my mind.

I know there are many people who will not be able to tell the difference, and some of them may work for bike magazines. The difference is most noticeable at the extremes, like a Schwinn Varsity vs thin 753. And the difference between the '62 Raleigh under discussion and another similar bike with 531 DB will be smaller, perhaps not noticeable, but still there.

Another point I'd like to stress - the differences that are just barely noticeable, or even the ones that are below the threshold of perception, will still add up over long miles. So you may be more tired and sore at the end of the ride on the gaspipe bike, and not be able to say why, but that is still a ride quality difference.

I'm not one of "the people that actually build and work on bikes for a living" anymore, but I was for over 20 years so I hope my vote counts.

Mark Bulgier
Seattle, Wa