RE: [CR]Nice E-bay Frejus Tour de France

(Example: Books:Ron Kitching)

From: "Dave Patrick" <>
To: "'The Maaslands'" <>, "'Classic Rendezvous'" <>
Subject: RE: [CR]Nice E-bay Frejus Tour de France
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:26:56 -0500
In-Reply-To: <001701c2b738$2882af60$>

I think that Steve is on the right track here, as my experience has shown that Frejus discontinued use of the "1950" date on the map of France decal right around 1960-61. The decal remains the same after this, as only the 1950 date within the map decal is removed. That's the key to dating the bike: does it have the "1950" or not on the map decal. YOu need to look closely at other TdF models, as they look identical. Also, TdF models always seemed to have an inconsistent supply of parts, as Campy and Simplex were seen throughout different time periods.

Throwing some fun into the serial number craze, Frejus made a batch of frames in 1960 using Columbus tubing that have THREE digit serial numbers. I own one of these and I know of at least two others from this "batch" or series, all having three digit serial numbers. These bikes were sold by Avenia's shop and they feature a lot of the traits of the high end model that typically used Reynolds 531 at the time.

Dave Patrick Chelsea, Michigan

-----Original Message----- From: []On Behalf Of The Maaslands Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:06 PM To: Classic Rendezvous Subject: Re: [CR]Nice E-bay Frejus Tour de France

Joe wrote:

> >
> > In this size I think this will go to Japan. It's also one more
> > data point on
> > the serial numbers. While it can't be a 1950, I think it is clear that my
> > sequential serial number theory is hogwash.
> >
> > Just when I think E-bay is drying up- lots of nice stuff when I looked
> > today. A set of the Campagnolo pedals with toe loops and the <C> markings
> > only found on Raleighs.

to which David opined:
> Actually let me revise that estimate. Looking at the serial # database as it
> stands and attempting to plot it out (allowing a bit of variance to try and
> get a straight line) I'd say this bike is from 1963.

after first stating:
> >
> > I think this bike is from around 1965. I've asked the seller if
> > there's # on
> > the back of the crankarms that might help in the dating.
> >
> > I also think that the concept of Frejus using sequential serial numbers is
> > still sound. What we see when we look at the numbers is muddled
> > by too many
> > years and too many owners (for the most part) and given the
> > variance in when
> > a bike left the factory and when it made it into the first owners hand I
> > think if we plotted a graph we'd see approximate correlation, but
> > we'd never
> > get anything too exact.

Personally, I think this bike may even be older than that. It strikes me as odd that they would continue to celebrate the 1950 tour de France instead of newer races where they had triumphed. I believe this bike might actually be from the late 50's. I seriously doubt that Frejus would continue to use Gran Sport on a top of the line bike once the record group came out.

I have no factual basis for these statements, just a hunch and would love to be contradicted by anybody have some facts.

Steven Maasland Moorestown, NJ