Re: Re: [CR]Mark Joynt selling Hetchins domain names

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From: Jerry & Liz Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Peter Naiman" <vze4k5n6@verizon.net>, "Richard M Sachs" <richardsachs@juno.com>
References: <20030221030141.EAYT16306.out005.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]>
Subject: Re: Re: [CR]Mark Joynt selling Hetchins domain names
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:35:34 -0600
cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

I think a Jeep is a real Jeep only if it functions like a real Jeep. Plus Chrysler (and now Daimler) bought not only the name, but machine tools, factories and operations with long-time Jeep (American Motors, really) employees. Miller's boss just bought a name. Whether it is a worthy reproduction depends entirely on the quality of the product. I will agree with you on one point. Joynt's pretense not to know that another firm producing so-called "Hetchins" existed is pretty flimsy. He would have been better served to argue that Miller, in his opinion, was not vigorously upholding the reputation of the marque and had not registered a Limited Company uder the Hetchins name, so Joynt thought he could do better job and had a go. If he had been open in stating that view, rather han pretending not to know of Miller's existence, he would have fewer people calling him a "scoundrel". I think this was bad judgment on his part, but it does not in fact, in my opinion, make him a scoundrel.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Houston, TX, where the highs have been in the 60's this week and it hasn't snowed in 5 years


----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Naiman
To: Richard M Sachs
Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [CR]Mark Joynt selling Hetchins domain names



> Jerry: I fail to understand why you cannot see the difference between a scoundrel like Mark Joynt and the current Hetchins ownership managed by David Miller. I do agree with your point, that David Miller has not done much to promote Hetchins, but it's a bit harsh calling it negligent. Mark Joynt is very guilty of lieing when he says that he investigated the web and elsewhere to see if any entity was producing Hetchins, and finding no evidence of Hetchins, he decided to revive the line. Any half ass search of the web would produse the World Class Cycle website, Hetchins.org and Dale's Cr link to Hetchins info and both other sites. Either he is stupid, and thinks the world has it's proverbial head up it's ass or he did very poor research. I tend to think he is clearly a scoundrel.
>
> I could see your point about lineage of the company being sold to another entity, and not being a true Hetchins, but I'm not that much of a purist. That's like saying Jeep was bought by Chrysler, so in real terms it's not a real Jeep. I realize this comparison is a stretch.
>
> Peter Naiman
> Boston, Mass
>
>
>
> > From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com>
> > Date: 2003/02/20 Thu PM 10:02:18 EST
> > To: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
> > CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Mark Joynt selling Hetchins domain names
> >
> > i agree with jerry.
> > e-RICHIE
> > ('will try reproducing this weekend...)
> > Richard Sachs Cycles
> > No.9, North Main Street
> > Chester, CT 06412 USA
> > http://www.richardsachs.com
> > Tel. 860.526.2059
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:27:14 -0600 "Jerry & Liz Moos"
> > <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> > I know that I am in a distinct minority, but I hate to see Mark Joynt and
> > Omega pack it in. In my opinion, the Hetchins made by Omega are no more
> > or
> > less "genuine" than those made by David Miller. Neither Joynt nor Miller
> > ever worked at Hetchins, or, so far as I know, have any personal
> > connection
> > to the Hetchins family or Jack Denny. Both "Hetchins" in my opinion are
> > reproductions, and the only issue in determining which is more nearly
> > "genuine" is which better reproduces the features and style of the
> > original.
> > I would gladly buy an Omega-made "Hetchins" if I judged it a better value
> > and a more accurate replica of the "real" Hetchins made while the
> > Hetchins
> > family still controlled the firm.
> >
> > I am not impressed with the purchasing of the Hetchins name from Alf by
> > the
> > firm Miller now works for. I view the buying and selling of famous names
> > with contempt and believe that while such a purchase may convey legal
> > rights, it cannot convey moral legitimacy. If in fact Miller's employer
> > has
> > legal rights which are being transgressed by Omega, then let him take
> > legal
> > action to enforce those rights and spare us the whining. I also think
> > Joynt
> > has a point about the manner in which Miller has conducted, or mostly not
> > conducted, the business. Miller's attitude toward the commercial aspects
> > of
> > the operation has been somewhere between indifference and gross
> > negligence.
> > I think the point about the Australian licensee is also well taken. I
> > would
> > be much more inclined to buy the current "Motobecanes" and "Merciers" if
> > they were at least made in France rather than Taiwan. I would no more
> > buy
> > an Australian-made Hetchins than I would by the Foster's beer currently
> > sold
> > in the US, which is brewed in Canada.
> >
> > I currently have under order a new Bates from Martin Coopland. I do not
> > consider this a "genuine" Bates, but a reproduction. Yet it is a good
> > and
> > faithful reproduction, built personally by the great Ron Cooper. This is
> > more than sufficient reason for me to be willing to purchase it. I don't
> > know why we can't view the Hetchins contraversy in the same light.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> > Houston, TX