Re: [CR]Want NOS Vintage?--It is available

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PX-10LE)

Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:39:37 -0800
From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [CR]Want NOS Vintage?--It is available
References: <20030224.111545.-132869.14.richardsachs@juno.com> <3E5A4B05.54880D0A@earthlink.net>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Warning: This may be jibberish. This topic covers lots of ground. I don't know if I have clarified anything here or not. I'm going to push the button anyway.

Chuck,

All things are relative. Even though, as Richie says "the numbers are frighteningly low", the numbers are enough to sustain the few that are willing and able to do it. Part of what strikes me as funny about how many customers come from this list; ALL but a very few of my current customers ARE listmembers. Persons having old bikes "modernized" is no threat to those who still like things either original or modern products made in the likeness of older products. I'm not a fan of the modernizing approach but, modernizing older frames is generally (hopefully) not undertaken on anything that it matters on. I think frames are best left to the original spacing, or at most going one step wider than original. I suspect most of us have bikes of all sorts, from originals to hodge podge beaters. I guess that if one of us feels that there is a "hole" in their collection ,they will seek to fill it with the real deal as opposed to try and make a few bikes cover all of their interests.

If we were to give a name to frames that were built using handmade methods and at least PRIMARILY vintage materials (or modern versions of classic lugs like Bates is using, etc.), whatever it was called there will never be any important industry impact from it. The future may prove me wrong on this somehow; but for now let's agree that we are in fact the lunitic fringe. VERY few people make a living in dealing with vintage bikes and it's not exactly glamourous nor profitable. This particular interest, this "hobby" if you will, is just that for most of us. First and formost to me as far as a hobby goes, I like it to be accessable, friendly, and enjoyable of course. I don't know about the rest of you people, but I'm having a blast! The vintage thing got me riding again(!) which was no easy feat; but more importantly I have extended my list of friends to the entire world, thanks to DALE BROWN, Le Cirque, and this list. I'm not a fanatic about a lot of the things that many of you are, parts and dates, and versions, and whatnot (what's whatnot?-eRichie 2003); I really only crave an audience for my clowning. No, actually what I really enjoy the most are the gatherings and the rides. Around here Matt Gorski and Sterling Peters keep the calander full of rides and events that keep us together between the major PAR-TAY at Velo Rendezvous. The fact that each of us is different while we all have one FETISH in common is what draws us together. The amount of knowledge and experiences that flows at these rides and gatherings is what we all crave. I try to bring some of that stuff to the list so that even the computer can help this process of our shareing and binding.

Regarding the topic of "replica", vintage, reproduction, etc. frames I would like to say that while the "market" is virtually non-existant, that is not the only excuse to build a fine bicycle frame. Every builder has a different purpose and passion for the craft. A potential customer for such a frame can choose how to outfit the frame based on their own needs. I have proven to myself quite recently that one does not have to ride the latest gear to have serious fun cycling. Old bikes run quiet and smooth. If your cycling experience has more to do with what brand or material bike and equiptment you have than the sensation of motion, distance, and oneness with the machine; then I call that "poseing". One sees it everywhere. But if you go and ride your heart out and enjoy the company, the speed, the precision of the high speed paceline, or the tranquility of the road; then you are cycling. At that point the ultimate special steed is your best friend. I hold my own in the group regardless of wheather I'm riding pigiron or a more modern mount. I have an entire herd of best friends. I enjoy the bloody hell out of every one. Both to look at or to ride. The final ingredient might be the one that some, but not all seek. If it came bottled as a concentrate, it would be what we call "MOJO". Mojo isn't the same thing for everyone. MOJO is relative. Mojo doesn't always cost money, but often it does. We might also equate "MOJO" with "soul". I believe soul is imparted by the original creator of the given item. Example. The Pacenti lug. As presented they have the soul and mojo of the designer, Kirk Pacenti. His vision of these lugs has materialized into a tangable product. Personally, I see something else there. As will be seen shortly, my vision is significantly different than Kirks', and yet on account of Kirks' vision I have been able to extract some of me from it. A most interesting process. Peter does it well as we have already seen. The MOJO only starts there. Once the bike has a theme and the lug pattern has been established the creative builder works to make a complete and harmonious work that also fits perfectly, rides better than the owner would have ever dreamed, and lasts several lifetimes with proper use and care.

Believe it or not, part of the complete bicycle concept is in fact the paintwork. Ideally, it is a perfect blend of the painters' best skills and experience and the owners' needs and personal tastes. Balance is something customers do not think about when designing paint finishes. Doesn't matter, I make everything work; sometimes by steering them away from ideas that would be disasterous. Most framebuilders are painfully aware that a good paint job is difficult to see "past". Actual lugwork, which most bikes built post 1976 or so don't even have, is unknown. What is "lugwork" anyway? Once the lug is shaped the layperson may never know what it looked like originally. Or it could be a "fancy" lug like a Nervex pro but because it got stuck on RAW to a Schwinn Paramount, suddenly it's lugwork. It might even sort of look OK once the plater buffs it and it has chrome on it; but it isn't lugwork. There is so much to know.

Too bad we can't all just go to MOJO lessons. But I know what Mojo is to me and I lay it on thick on my frames, because if you aren't in it for the money (or fame!), you might as well do it for the MOJO, right? The fun part is that there are so many ways to do it. As long as a small number per year is enough to make it worthwhile, I see no reason not to. The who world does not need to be about money. Frames don't HAVE to be about money, although they should. Sometimes a small timer like Stradivari can make an impact on the craft many years down the road. In the meantime, play the damn thing!

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA


>
> Richard Sachs wrote:
> >
>
> > are there any-many on this list that have actually ordered a
> > frame that may be 'considered' a modern version/reissue/
> > replica/reproduction of a CR timeline bicycle? i would love to
> > know otherwise, but my guess is that the total numbers are
> > frightenly low. from among all the euro marques that have offered
> > updated versions, coupled wth the list builders, i'd be surprised
> > if total sales exceeded 3 dozen.
>
> Not me.
>
> What I have seen a few times here in California is guys taking their
> 1960s Ideor Asso or Legnano that they had in their youth (and that they
> stopped riding in their youth) and then started riding again, so took
> their rusty bike to Jim and Sue at CyclArt, had new paint and decals put
> on and braze-ons and respacing for modern parts. These guys were
> thrilled with their "new" bikes.
>
> So while they would be a potential buyer for a "new/old" bike, they get
> old bikes "modernized" because "who in the world would want to ride with
> those old obsolete parts." I think this eliminates some of the buyers
> for a modern version/reissue/replica/reproduction of a CR timeline bicycle.

>

> Chuck Schmidt

> L.A.

>

> .