Hi Brian, Well, first off all riders in these parts are the same - both racers & racer wanabee's (I being one of the latter) - nobody wants steel. We have a very competitive local racing club. I try doing the Thursday night races every so often. There are age groups of course, and I am in the oldest one. When I do show up I race (can one call it racing?) on my Richard Sachs. I am convinced that the only limitations here are my conditioning & racing skill. The bike is far, far better than I will ever be. I know that Richie thinks his bikes are still competitive, so I have to believe it is true. My bike weighs 19 lbs. equipped with Campagnolo Record 9-speed & tubular wheels / tires. I weigh 165 lbs, less than most of the guys in my age group? Maybe... Anyway, you get my point. As for the "weekend warrior" scenario, in a group of 20-30 riders who show up every Saturday morning for some very competitive "training rides" I give up nothing to the other riders on bikes that weigh 1-3 lbs. less than mine, including all of the city limit "sprints". I just do not think I'd be any faster on something else. Am I wrong? Oh yeh, I want to try the track too and there is a new one near by. So, I picked up an N.O.S. Cannondale track bike complete with Suntour Superbe components. ALUMINUM! YIKES!!!! Cheers, Richard Rose
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Brian Baylis Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:05 PM To: Richard Rose Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Want NOS Vintage?--It is available
Richard,
Since I have been out riding lately I've noticed something about "racers" and non-racers in my area. Here in San Diego we're pretty hip on cycling trends I think. In the past I too would be a racer. This is what I have observed about "racers" and steel frames here. No one who is really racing is riding anything other than Ti, Aluminium, or carbon. There might be a few cheap guys who can only afford to ride a tigged steel frame out there, but I haven't seen them. When I WAS racing, except on the track where I felt safe, I rode anything but a Baylis frame. That goes double for training crits. I actually rode a Japanese built Schwinn Paramount OS that I got thru the club. Everyone else at the time rode Cannondales and such to race on; now it's Ti and carbon. The notion of racing in a modern peloton on a steel frame is unthinkable to me. The best racing bikes are made of alturnative materials in my opinion. I would probably ride plastic if I were to take up racing again.
Blasphamy! No. It's reality. I don't have to hang around these guys very long to know that steel is real only OUTSIDE of racing circles, and even then in a very small arena. The common cyclist in this area is a serious weight weenie and only new and light gets their attention. Steel frames are for antique collectors like myself. Most old timers still have an old steel bike in the stash, but very few cyclists these days have nothing but steel frames. I would be one of them. That would change if I raced on the road. Actually a Holland Ti for 650c wheels would be my race bike. In the meantime, I ride my "antiques" with these guys to stimulate thought and deepen their appreciation for fine bicycles. It makes a much better impression at the top of the mountains than it would if everyone was slurping coffee and donuts while a group of geeks stand around and look at the "freak" in the local bike shop.
Lugged steel frames are for the old and nostalgic. Practical still for the tourist. Even most recreational or weekend warrior types don't ride or care about traditional frames. The market is very small. People who like personal and handcrafted things might see the charm in the old ways. Only us old guys are willing to spend big bucks for a lugged steel "artistic" frame. A beautiful custom made lugged steel frame is only practical to a few. The ride, the joy of riding, the benifits of cycling are not diminished one bit while riding such a frame. For the few the sensation is enhanced. If you know how to enjoy cycling then any bike is practical. The rest of it is in your mind. Personally my cycling experiences are greatly enhanced when I ride a bike of my own construction down a mountain at over 50 mph with complete confidence and abandon. Unfortunately, I am the only person in the world that can experience that. Other bikes give me pleasures as well. If a bike is only good if it's for racing, then I don't want good. I see a possibility that after persons only slightly younger than myself are gone, that the golden era of lugged steel frames will submerge from our culture. But I think that before the ship goes down completely there should be a few "Stradivaris" laying about. Someone has to make them and someone has to buy them.
These are just my observations of the local riders and my personal experience as a "racer" for all intents and purposes. I may even take up a little track work if I get much fitter. No more road or criterium stuff. Time trial, maybe. If I rode a race on a steel road bike it would be for grins and exercise. Are the racers different in your neck of the woods?
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
Steel is old technology. Some people like old technology.
>
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:15:34 -0500 Richard M Sachs
> <richardsachs@juno.com> writes (IN PART)
>
> fwiw, my 30th ann frames, intro-ed
> > at 2002 cirque has generated 8 orders, but one one of those is
> > for a listee. how serious_is_this 'interest' in having a new
> > version
> > of an old bicycle frame? my question pertains to a 'new version
> > of an old frame' not a lugged frame made with modern material.
> > that is to say-pre oversized tubes, 'older' lugs, and the
> > like...that
> > kinda' frame. how many of you are out there?
> > talk to me.
> > e-RICHIE
>
> Richie, I am impressed that there have been 8 orders for the 30'Th.
> Though it (30'Th anniversary) might be the definition of "cool" it
would
> be near the bottom of my wish list, unless I won the lottery or
> something.
> Nope, for that kind of money I want nothing less than your very best.
> Not just workmanship wise, but the latest evolution of "the best
racing
> bike I can possibly make". But that's just me.
> Richard Rose (Toledo, Ohio)
> P.S. I hope the quote was accurate?