snipped: brian writes, 1) "But to whitewash Kens' offlist behavior and make people think that maybe Kens' detractors are fabricating or imagining what Ken has done to them and others is a little irresponsible in my opinion. He did send zingers to several persons onlist right from the first day"... cut..."I told them I had many of the same experiences and in fact I have a long list of my own that are not at all flattering to the way conducts himself offlist"...cut..."The bad side of his behavior can stay away. If the knowledge comes with abuse, we will have to do without." and 2) "You seek to invalidate me and others when you say he was railroaded out." *** *** *** *** i say, 1) who among us hasn't acted offlist list in a way that makes us beyond scrutiny? we're not all saints here, ya' know. 2) he was jobbed. if you want to say that my opinions about thursday serve to invalidate you, so be it. that was not my intent. and 3) and i suppose that the offlist mail (that was forwarded to me by a certain west guy...) regarding hypothetical "Las Vegas odds" was representative of the kind of behavior that <is> tolerated. i reckon you've seen the mail i'm referring to. yeah-i saved that mail. it is not flattering for the folks involved. its author, participants, and 'forwarders' are not a group of folks i'd like to party with. e-RICHIE chester, ct
replyng to: Brian Baylis <rocklube@adnc.com> writes: . Richard,
I appreciate your defence of Ken on the list. My point yesterday was along the lines of as long as Ken behaves and follows the rules that the rest of us do, there is no reason for him not to participate on the list as Ken Denny. But to whitewash Kens' offlist behavior and make people think that maybe Kens' detractors are fabricating or imagining what Ken has done to them and others is a little irresponsible in my opinion. He did send zingers to several persons onlist right from the first day.
Each of us knows a slightly different person, based on our actual experiences with him and things that this small community with this interest observe about his dealings. Perhaps Ken treats you differently than he treats most others. Having talked to Ken and had email exchanges over a period of years; I suspect this is the case. I spent a fair amout of time yesterday responding to several persons who found my defence of Ken objectionable. I heard a few more "Ken stories" from people. I told them I had many of the same experiences and in fact I have a long list of my own that are not at all flattering to the way conducts himself offlist.
As people, those of us who don't get their rind massaged by Ken have a more difficult time saying he is a good person. He is a good person. He is ALSO a person who does and says bad things that boggle the mind. So in all fairness, to invalidate all of us who know full well the part of Kens' behavior that is unacceptable; I have to say that Ken got what he deserved. I was hoping those of us who know how Ken well would cut him some extra slack and ignore the zingers long enough to see if this thing could settle in and work. Some may have been oversensitive too soon, but make no mistake, people are not making this stuff up. My position is that Kens' knowledge is welcome here. Many could benifit from it. The bad side of his behavior can stay away. If the knowledge comes with abuse, we will have to do without.
Kens' reputation is due solely to his behavior and how he treats people. His use of fake names and his eBay antics are no secret to those who are affected by it. The reputation does not change by saying the bad part does not exist. Trust me Richard, it DOES. You seek to invalidate me and others when you say he was railroaded out. He's not here (as Ken Denny) right now NOT because anyone threw him off the list. He's being childish now, and if he doesn't want to come out and play it is now HIS choice. Ken is welcome to come play by the rules or sulk in a corner. Dale didn't give him a time out. If Ken's feelings are hurt, now you know what it feels like to some of these poeple, Ken.
I like, and try to tolerate everyone. Ken included. But leave the baggage home. If anyone can't work with that, then lurk or bail out. All everyone is asking of Ken is keep a lid on it and don't go off on people offlist. For Ken, that is asking the world. Well, the rest of us do it.
Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA I know what it's like when Ken lets it fly. I suspect Richie has not had the pleasure of this experience.