Joe Starck's note suggests to me that the original posters were, if I may infer their outlooks, discussing different things. Hetchins most assuredly is what American enthusiasts think first when they think of the art or craft of fancy lugs. Bruce however is trying to establish an important fact in the _history_ of fancy lugs, and history uses different terms than art.
To the British correspondents on the list, who have seen bikes that many of us in America have not, Hetchins may not always have been an archetype in the artistic sense that Joe suggests. Perhaps they can point us to other makers of very ornate lugs in the style associated with Hetchins, Carlton, H.R. Morris, and Bates, especially with elaborate scrollwork and fleur-de-lis patterns. How far back in time does the fleur-de-lis appear in bicycle lugs?
Chris Barbour Boston, Mass.
-----Original Message----- From: joe starck [mailto:joestarck2003@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 1:05 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Hobbs, Hetchins, First and Archetype
Retreating to a dictionary to define archetype is to limiting for this discussion on "the history of fancy lugs." Within art and craft cultures an archetype is something which is best representative of something else, so much so that the two have become understandable as the same. Dolly Parton is an archetype for (fill in the blank) as Hetchins is an archetype for (fill in the blank.) Joe Starck, Groundhog Capital of the World, Wisconson