Re: [CR]Re: Paremount "Quality"

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2002)

Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:49:55 -0700
From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
To: Dave Novoselsky <dnovo@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Paremount "Quality"
References: <008c01c2fc8b$38241e20$210110ac@VALUEDCB7D4C82>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Dave,

I'm glad I have had no effect on your appreciation of your chrome Paramount; that's exactly as I intended. I have no intention of making anyone like their bikes LESS! We LOVE our bikes and our reasons are personal, as in your case. I have simular visions from my early interest in bikes. I have a soft spot (in my head) for the Peugeot PX-10 from 1971. As a matter of fact, the only one I have is a modified one that is fully chrome(!!) and was refitted for 650B wheels (so very cool), racks, and a very rare (apparently) Stronglight 93 TRIPLE crankset, purchased in France while the previous owner was touring there with this bike. Got it minus wheels for $400! Shimano derailliers and an Ideal saddle, naturally.

On the other hand, it is my aim to help elevate the overall level of workmanship awareness amongst our populace. Nothing has the power to override the sentimental attachments we have to various bikes. That is the way it should be and will stay, so I'm not afraid of casting a bummer on anyones' opinion of their favorites. Everyone is safe. Our visions and dreams will remain intact; hopefully our level of appreciation for charming bikes of ALL kinds will increase based on greater knowledge. I hope to do my part, which needs to be mixed with the efforts of everyone else who has a sincere interest in learning more and having FUN doing it.

Thanks again for your imput. Regarding the chrome thing. Chromeing is more likely to produce sins on a frame than cover them up. I have high praise for chrome on Schwinn Paramounts of that era. The framebuilders did nothing to refine the lugs. The only sin is that the edges are rough and inconsistant in some cases. Some frames were better than others to a degree. But the polishing process took the raw lug from bumpy from tooling marks and such to smooth and somewhat blended, and most importantly shiney, once plated. If the frame got plated without the benifit of the polisher; the resulting frame would probably make you barf! All credit to the plating. Especially considering they did not commit any sins while plating the frames either! Excellent job, platingwise. If you happen to have your Schwinn at Le Cirque, we can compare it to my Masi track bike replica, and you will see a WHOLE NEW WORLD of polishing for chrome plating. Lugs so smooth and schulptured, sharp and crisp it loos like jewelery. Lettering on the Campag dropouts so sharp it looks like it was laser etched as opposed to smeared with an eraser like most polishing causes. Polishing so delicate you can read the lettering stamped on the Reynolds tubing as clearly as from the pages of a book. Sometimes the only way to learn about these things is by direct comparison. Many of us don't get these opportunities. That is why I'm bringing what I'm toteing to the Cirque this year; they are good examples of what we talk about from time to time.

Anyway, clearly one mans' floor is another mans' ceiling. Harvey loves the way his Paramount rides and feels; and I had a road and a track and did not like either one, instantly. Thankfully we all DON'T like the same thing. Technically, there would only be one kind of bike in the world. No fun at all in that.

Looking forward to raising a few blisters in the name of education in Dales' workshop. I'll even divulge one of my favorite little tricks to modify a Nervex lug to give it some unique and distinct character, even though it is a lug as common as dirt. This trick came from Ron Smith, the original painter at Masi, Carlsbad. I learned the best stuff from him; the Italians were stingy with information at best, and very little of what they did was creative as what Ron Smith came up with. Please join us Friday night at Le Cirque for some good old fashioned WORK! I'm packing plenty of elbow grease, Campagnolo of course!

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Stand back! I swing a MEAN 12" bastard(file)!
>
> Brian: I find your comments very enlightening and, to be frank, they make a
> lot of sense. I can only view my bikes as finished products. I lack the
> 'eye' and knowledge that a professional framebuilder such as yourself has,
> and see no reason to disagree. Does the chrome cover a multitude of sins on
> the Paramount? Perhaps, and looking at it now, the chrome does make it a
> bit more difficult to assess how the frame was assembled. Is there a way
> that I as a layperson can tell? Probably not. Can a pro tell. God, I
> would hope so!
>
> Does any of this make me appreciate my Paramount any less? Frankly, no.
> The Paramount represents for me something that, when I stepped into a
> Schwinn shop as a child, was the 'unobtainable' -- that bike carefully kept
> behind the counter, where only the older, more wealthy and more
> sophisticated riders could inspect, let alone posses it. Always wanted
> that chrome Paramount. Waited forty five years, but finally got what I
> wanted.
>
> The Masi? Again, I can't disagree with these comments, but I do lack the
> fine eye of a framebuilder to pick up the details set out in this note. I
> do know how it rides (superb) and hope it appears to be finished (equally
> superb.) I am very happy I found one in my size (short legs, bad back) and
> don't plan on disposing of this bike in the near future either.
>
> The Team? The 79 was a frameset, and while the note confesses that this is
> one Raleigh frameset that has not 'gone under the scope' I spent some time
> looking very closely at mine. The lugs and the workmanship, again to my
> untutored eye, are markedly different on this frameset than one I saw from
> the mid-70s. Were these built with more skill and care than the average
> Raleigh? It would appear so. The lugs on mine are very nicely done and
> appear to have had some hard work put on them, but again, I lack the
> framebuilder's eye to really tell. I trust we have some more knowledgable
> Team experts out there who can respond as to how these frames were built.
>
> But the bottom line here is that the way a frame is actually built and the
> skill lavished upon it is something that it may indeed take a real
> professional to apprecaite. I sent Richie Sachs photos of my new Nagasawa,
> and his response was overwhelming. I spent a great deal of time looking
> over the workmanship before the frame was made into a bike. At the same
> time, the same photos elicited a comment on the Serotta User's group that
> one rider was thoroughly unimpressed. Not enough carved lugs and glitzy
> paint. He suggested that his $500 frame was just as nice, if not better!
>
> Thank God my eye is a TAD better than that.
>
> Dave Novoselsky,
> Chicago, Illinois