[CR]geeking on wheels, and brief redux of old vs new thread

(Example: Framebuilders:Masi)

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:28:09 -0700
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: "jack bissell" <jack_bissell@mac.com>
In-Reply-To: <4627182.1050099020292.JavaMail.nobody@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
cc: chasds@mindspring.com
Subject: [CR]geeking on wheels, and brief redux of old vs new thread

It's true that wheels have gotten heavier. You're right, that emperor's nekkid!!

Like the adage says, a pound at the wheels is worth 2 on the frame...and this difference *IS* out at the edge where it matters. For example an Ergal 275g with a light Seta 200g= 475g. A modern racer will have something like a Ksyrium SL clincher rim 450g+tire 240g+tube 70g+rim strip= 760g. Even if you don't buy into the weight issue, that is up to a pound of rotating mass that can be taken off, while saving money and improving the ride of your bike!!!

compare my on topic race wheels vs my modern race wheels:

Fiamme Ergals 24/28 Campy low flange ft/ hi-lo r Campy 13-21 6 speed revolution spokes, alloy nipples Clement Setas OMAS skewers --------------------------------- 1180g (1790g complete)

Zipp 404 16x28 Am Classic ft, Record-10 r 11-23 ti/steel revolution spokes, alloy nipples Vittoria CG tubulars control tech ti QR ----------------------------------- 1265g (2140g complete)

When I'm racing these young blokes who've never ridden a classic bike I think a lot about what they're missing....Besides the aesthetics and history, more the concrete advantages our old road racing bikes might have. (sorry but I find new race bikes are better in most every quantifiable way, even if I get bored discussing them)...and light wheels with featherweight silks that sing down the road: this is one advantage! Another is the q-factor, nice and narrow on NR/SR bikes and even narrower (and symmetrical) on PX10s and other French bikes. Lastly, when in really hairy bike handling situations, I find a steel fork can be pushed harder--with better control at the limit and beyond. Betcha noone's flying into off-camber, bumpy corners in the rain like Eddy would have on his De Rosa!

jack bissell, never thought he'd want to jump in the old vs. new debate in tucson, az

On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 06:10 PM, chasds@mindspring.com wrote:
> On my regular jaunt through all the *colnago* stuff on ebay, I chanced
> upon a C-40 with wheels called *Neutrons.* Price given for these
> wheels was something like 900 bucks.
>
> Now. Really. Surely that's a joke. I have a set of wheels from
> about 1975, 36-hole, three-cross, Record HF hubs with Ergal rims, and
> there's no way those Neutrons are significantly lighter than these
> wheels. I'd be willing to bet money that my wheels are lighter than
> the Neutrons. More robust too. I bet those Neutrons have a handful
> of bladed spokes, and if you break one or two, you're walkin' home.
> Of course, to prevent this problem the rim will be heavier, but, at
> that point, what exactly have you gained?
>
> I know we've been around on this before. But besides the very real
> pleasure I derive from exposing an emperor without his clothes, in a
> mildly droll post like this one to like-minded listers....is it not a
> form of highway robbery to charge a grand for wheels that probably
> aren't as light, or as practical, as a set of wheels made nearly 30
> years ago? Moreover, wheels one can easily build for under 150 bucks
> with NOS rims and lightly used hubs...ok, under 200 bucks.
>
> I just could not believe my eyes. I can't decide who's more culpable:
> the company that would design, make, and sell these, or the weekend
> racer who would buy them....and for those who think I'm a hopeless
> retrogrouch (which I am), just try a set of 36 hole Ergals laced to
> Campagnolo Record hf or lf hubs with some nice stainless spokes. With
> Vittoria Open Pro Corsa CX TT seta tires, or continental 250 Sprinters
> at 160 lbs. Mmmmmm, mmmmm. Doesn't get any better.
>
> Charles "good retro wheels are still the best" Andrews
> SoCal
>
> (I'm riding from Marina Del Rey to the Queen Mary and back tomorrow,
> via Palos Verdes. Anyone here who'd like to ride with me, e-mail me)