[CR]Re: No respect- japan makers

(Example: Events)

From: "Tom Martin" <tom@wilsonbike.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <CATFOODVZn6Qpixg3yF00001ea1@catfood.nt.phred.org> <002601c309e0$2d693620$b54528d5@bruce>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:38:53 -0700
Subject: [CR]Re: No respect- japan makers

I think we can all point to a number of Euro and American bike brands and manufacturers that will hold up to the same sweeping generalizations that will stand up to the same scrutiny we cast on Japanese, and Taiwan built bikes/ frames/ components- at any time in the history of the industries of those countrys, comparing apples to apples.

I am not disagreeing with you Bruce, I am heartily agreeing actually. Our eye for objective quality is not always so objective. When does a frame builder start producing their own style and sign of the hand and stop being a copier, or replica maker?

Tom Martin

Oakland CA


----- Original Message -----
From: brucerobbins
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 2:34 PM
Subject: [CR]Re: No respect


From: "Tom Martin" <tom@wilsonbike.com>

"... the sign of the hand of the Euro 'masters' was unsteady and shoddy in most respects if you take an objective view of their work. Bad paint, poor weld penetration, overheating of surrounding metals, out of true frames and forks, etc are all 'signs of the hand' that the Europeans are guilty of too- not just the Taiwanese or Mexicans."

Tom,

That's a sweeping generalisation that wouldn't stand up to close scrutiny. However, as in all generalisations, there is a grain of truth in there. Whilst I would contend that the "best of British" was a match for anything, there were certainly some shoddy practitioners out there as, indeed, there were in every bike-making country.

It looks like English/ french/ Italian/ German/ etc frame builders and component makers were producing units of product at most profitable materials/ labor cost moreso than simply plying their craft for the passion of the industry or whatever. Industriousness, yes, but passion to quality? I think not.

You've really hit the nail on the head here, though. Unless the bike business is different from every other form of commerce, the framebuilder identifies his market and builds as economically as he can to satisfy his customers. Whilst there are always going to be some framebuilders who are a bit more skilful than their colleagues, I think the ultimate quality of a frame is also heavily dependent on the amount of time spent on it and the framebuilder's own standards. Most competent framebuilders can produce a "work of art" if they wanted to but few actually have to in order to hit their market effectively.

When we go on about someone being a master framebuilder, are we saying he was somehow inherently better or more skilful than his peers or that he just took more care?

Whilst some of us may be guilty of not giving Japanese builders enough respect, I don't think there's any way that accusation can be levelled at the Japanese. As I see it, it's because they hold Herse and Singer in such high esteem that they take the care to do justice to the French marque when building their replicas.

Bruce
Dundee
Scotland