Re: [CR]bikes, Masis, fenders, Fenders, pianos, Steinways

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:50:00 -0700
From: Brandon Ives <>
To: Thomas Rawson <>
Subject: Re: [CR]bikes, Masis, fenders, Fenders, pianos, Steinways

Thomas I agree with many of your points, but someone really needs take the lead and own the "baseball bat." If it isn't Dale who should it be? If we don't have a serious moderator this list will turn into another IBOB list. Many of us came to the CR list because IBOB started falling apart about 4-5 years ago. Like you most of the topics lately bore me to tears and any post that say's Masi I just preview and delete. If I have to read another 'how great Campagnolo is" thread I'm going to claw my eyes out. I've also become pretty bored of lugs, or at least jaded.

So I would love to talk about musical instruments, wooden boats, or long boards. Maybe we can even branch out to home restorations and building tube amps. The only problem is that isn't what the CR list is about. The CR list is about bikes alone. I don't see much of a problem about OT threads as long as they stay about bikes. I even think pointing out articles that might be of interest to the list like E-richie did is fine too, but discussions about the article are not. For those that need that OT discussion sometimes I'd highly recommend The Straight Dope message board at <>. If someone really wants to know JPW's paint influences give him a call, he's a nice guy and won't bite.

In closing I'd say if Dale wants to call himself the owner of the list, or King High Supreme Ruler of the list it's fine with me as long as he's willing to sometimes wield the "baseball bat" to keep order. I have no interest in another lifestyle list like IBOB. I want a list that if someday I get interested in old racing bikes I can ask a question and it'll get answered. The answers won't get missed between messages of "the evils of SUVs" as so often happens on other lists. I hate to add to the chatter on this list but I'd hate to see this turn into just another bike list. enjoy, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives SB, CA

On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:02AM, Thomas Rawson <> wrote:
>Dale et al,
>Ive been hesitant to remind anyone I said this a couple years ago
>but indeed I am the guy who once suggested Dale's ruling (on some
>issue at the time) felt a little like the kid with the baseball
>bat who didn t like the way the game was going...
>I was reminded of that this morning as I noticed my body reaction
>to Dales words "list owner". I thought - wow is that how my
>friend Dale thinks of himself? He OWNS this list? If I wanna play
>he "owns" some piece of me?
>Dale your started this list. That makes you an original and the
>originator. You also manage this list - an ongoing requirement.
>That this list and your website exists means I "owe" you - big
>time, but in these troubled times Im spending a lot of time
>thinking about what it means to be a citizen and the notions of
>freedom of speech loom large for me. The internet is unique and
>we're all learning what the rules of engagement are. But Id like
>to suggest that no one owns this list and once someone starts to
>think of it that way and control the thinking, writing and
>communicating that goes on surely it will die. As it should. And
>lately it feels like it is.
>At this point I would suggest that WE own this list and that
>without the ability to push and shove each other a little and to
>explore topics of interest we all will stop coming. 700 members -
>really? Where are they? I count 20 or 30 regulars. Ive been quiet
>lately because Ive been bored with the topics. I often like E
>Ritchies threads and I really appreciated the Steinway story. It
>was absolutely relevant to me and others and if you cant find the
>relevance thats OK to. If you havent seen Red Violin and/or if
>you didnt get it, then you wont get this. Hearing Brian go on
>about Falierio and Alberto and Mario is way cool to. I have been
>waiting for our British friends who wanted to revolt and secede
>last year to start their own website about British Marques to
>speak up. Tell me about Ephgrave, Gillot, Thanet etc etc.
> Really - bring it on. Or we can talk about how California
>Cabernet influences your thinking about bicycles. Hilary has
>twice in recent times chimed in with exquisite insights to the
>Hetchins threads yet mostly hes about EBay selling. Thats not
>interesting to me. I dont complain but I gather he is a treaure
>trove of history and info - where is it? What would it take?
>Ive tried on several occasions to get things going in another
>direction but my sense is the "regulars" werent interested or
>didnt get it and the other 680 people werent listening??? Of
>course maybe my idea was OT or dumb. So I sit back and listen.
>But I wonder if our rules arent just a little too tight.
>Tom Rawson
>in Oakland, CA
>sans Cabernet, Euphroag AND Latte - yikes!