Re: [CR] *lard* and 1949 Campagnolo

Example: Production Builders:Tonard

From: "John Pergolizzi" <>
To: <>, <>
References: <> <>
Subject: Re: [CR] *lard* and 1949 Campagnolo
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:02:04 -0400

Just spent the last 1/2 hour or so repacking and truing the front wheel of the 1959-1966 Masi Special that will be at Velo Rendezvous in Oct. Hpoe to get a closer date by then.
      Interesting stuff: the first thing I noticed; the "Made in Italy" and "F.B." insignia on the alloy flanges (small, 36 hole ). The steel barrel has the Campagnolo winged logo. The rim may be made rideable. Sort of / kind of.
      Upon taking off the outer locknut, to my surprise and amazement, the date stamp read "CAM" and "49"! The other locknut read the same. The cones read "49" and were somewhat worn and pitted. Alot of use on these oldies. Stella spokes; 15/16 gauge, chromed. Rims have serrated sides but maker unknown.
      The funny thing is that after ALONG time, all the nipples moved o.k. At least o.k. enough initially. A little oil on one or two to help, but nothing major. First turn on some of them gave a nice "crack" and some dirt feel out of the rim. Always loosening at first just to get her somewhat back to true. Seems like the last mechanic wasn't concerned at all with the up and down , only the side to side. The rear was out about 3/4 of an inch! Now rideable!
      Who knows if these wheels were built with any oil or goop of any kind. Although the build may not date to 1949 (but it might), they are still workable and rideable.
      Just go slow and pay attention to the spoke torqueing. That's no good. And some stress relief after a truing is always good. For the wheel and for you. To "do" the wheel, I just hold the wheel flat on my lap with the rim against my belly (yea, that's right, my belly goes ONTOP TOO) and my elbows/ forearms on top of the rim, hands about 6 or 8 inches apart holding the rim. Press down with elbows and up with the hands. Not too hard. Ping, Ping. Then turn the wheel an 1/8th or so and repeat. Keep repeating till I've gone around twice or so. Flip and do it all again. ( I used to do this against the floor but got tired of the up and down. Then some fine tuning if necessary. Always backing off on the nipple to "de-torque" the spoke after tightening. Go ride u'm(put appropriate rubber on first). No pinging? Got the octane just right. And I'll keep my personal stress relief to myself.
     Personally, I never used any oil or goop on spoke threads. Never bothered cleaning the drawing and packing oil off of new spokes before a build either. If you must, linseed oil will do just fine.
      Lubrication where ever metal touches metal is a good thing. No mater what any "new" instructions may recommend. Just MHO.
      Now where do I find rideable 1949 tubularos by Oct.? (My old friend Vinny Massi, from whom I learned a great deal about wrenching at Roy's Sheepshead Cycles, used to call u'm that.) ciao, GianTindiro Pergolizzi TOO HOT N.Y.C.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Baylis"
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Wheel Building *lard* and why!

> Stevan,
> Yes, Faliero wanted a little light oil on the threads of the spokes. I
> agree with you; there is nothing more frustrating than a wheel that
> can't be trued on account of frozen spokes.
> Brian Baylis (SSOT)
> La Mesa, CA
> >
> > In a message dated 7/5/03 8:39:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > writes:
> >
> > As someone new to wheel building, I have been keeping out of
> > this, but Kurt
> > Sperry's comment prompts me to say that the Webb's in
> > Lincolnshire who showed
> > me what is what were insistent that building the wheels up
> > dry worked best.
> >
> > This depends entirely on how you define "best". One of the big
> > advantages of using some kind of lube, is that in 10 or 20 years, the
> > nipple doesn't seize to the spoke. If you never, ever get your wheels
> > wet, it may not be an issue, but back when I worked in shops, I ran
> > across way too many wheels that would not true because the nipple was
> > frozen to the spoke. Also, if you lube the thread and the nipple seat,
> > the "feel" that I get with the spoke wrench allows me to more easily
> > equalize tension.
> > Threads need lubrication. Brian's "More Masi Tales" indicated that
> > Faliero wanted every single thread on the bicycle lubricated on
> > initial assembly.
> >
> > Brian, did that include spoke nipples?
> >
> > I've been using grease on the threads and either grease or a pinpoint
> > oiler on the nipple seat for many years.
> > Stevan Thomas
> > Alameda, CA