Re: [CR]'58 Paramount Parts

(Example: Framebuilding:Technology)

From: "Raoul Delmare" <Raoul.L.Delmare@worldnet.att.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <gsc2@cwru.edu>, "Bruce C." <BruceCumberland@comcast.net>
References: <002201c347d2$a13dec00$70831681@chottineroffice>
Subject: Re: [CR]'58 Paramount Parts
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:00:36 -0500
cc: gchottiner@adelphia.net

Only my own personal opinion , but . . .

What A BEAUTY ! What An Historical Time Capsule !

One of the very first "Campagnolo equipped" Schwinn Paramounts !

Say , what's the frame size ? ( Schwinn's method is to measure from center-to-top

The fact that this one has Nervex Professional lugs , but no Reynolds tubing decal , is extremely interesting . I'm guessing that your bicycle has Campagnolo drop-outs ?? Surely there could only have been a tiny handful of Paramounts made with Campagnolo drop-outs , but NOT made with Reynolds tubing ?? I wonder if yours is Reynolds 531 , or Accles & Pollack tubing , or "Made-In-U.S.A." "aircraft tubing" ??

The twin brazed-on pump pegs are EXTREMELY rare on a Paramount .

Yes , you're right , the crankset is a Stronglight 99 , and pretty far off , on this bicycle .

A beautiful , steel , cottered , Stronglight crankset , would be fairly correct , and not too expensive at all . You want the earlier kind , stamped with the oval emblem , not just the words "Made-By-Stronglight" . ( and Schwinn did put those cranksets onto Paramounts , I know that they were on the plain , non-Deluxe , Paramounts in 1966 - 1967 )

A Paramount crankset could be found . They are very high-quality cranksets . And they are elegantly beautiful . ( they used the right crank itself as one of the "spider" arms , just as the very latest Campagnolo Record cranks do ! ) But , as far as I know , all Schwinn Paramount cranksets , and all Schwinn Superior cranksets , were single chainring only . If your shift levers and front derailleur are obviously circa 1958-1960 , then you need two chainrings .

In an aluminum crankset , you could buy a new or used T.A. "cyclo-touriste" "Pro 5 vis" , but that might not be entirely correct .

The Campagnolo Timeline ( thanks Chuck ! ) says that the Campagnolo crankset first came out in 1958 . And , the correct early Campagnolo crankset , with all of the correct early features , in excellent condition , would be very expensive . You could choose to go with a later Campagnolo crankset . If you simply found an "almost-as-good-as-new" fairly common Campagnolo Record crankset , with "Nuovo Record" style rings ( no that's NOT their correct name ! but that's how they are usually sold ) , it would look correct from a few feet away . And as long as it wasn't quite correct anyway , you could settle for one with any date-code on it , right up into the 1980's .

( if it was me , and thinking about budget , I'd go with a vintage steel Stronglight crankset as 1st choice , and a late Campy "Nuovo Record" as 2nd choice - either way , I'd LOOK for a great deal on an excellent early Campy , and keep looking )

I know that in 1966 & 1967 , the Deluxe Paramount came with Campagnolo pedals , and the plain Paramount ( it was using the P12 model number during those years ) came with Lyotard Berthet model steel platform pedals . Those are lovely pedals , with a very unique look ! Early Campagnolo road pedals , with strap loops , are not THAT hard to find . They do cost a bit extra . But their prices are not in the same category as Campagnolo 1st generation cranksets !

Yes , either early Weinmann aluminum alloy brakes , or Schwinn Paramount steel brakes , would be the way to go . As rare as the early Weinmann brakes might be , they will be much easier to find than "Schwinn Built" Paramount brakes . I'm not up on all of the different "Schwinn Script" steel caliper brakes . But I believe there were actual Paramount brakes , in addition to Superior , and lower level brakes .

Yes , your thinking on the saddle is probably just right . And if you were willing to settle for "almost correct" , you could even simply buy a brand new one , made in the 21st Century !

Congratulations .

Looking at recent prices for early to middle 1960's derailleur bicycles in general , and Paramounts in particular , and looking at recent prices for 1946 - 1959 fixed-gear Paramounts , and considering that yours is almost New Old Stock , almost un-used , almost truly "mint" . . .

Even with the easiest choices for components , even by simply installing excellent vintage steel Stronglight cranks , nicely polished up old Weinmann aluminum alloy brakes , some very-good condition Campy pedals with loops ( or some nice vintage Lyotard pedals ) , and a new 2003 Brooks B.17 saddle . . .

$ 2,500.00 ?

I know , I know , we all want to think we can buy near-perfect 1960 vintage lightweight bicycles for less than half of what we see them actually selling for . . . And some of us do get amazing bargains . . . But . . .

Anyway , congratulations !

Cheers ,
Raoul


----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Chottiner
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Cc: gchottiner@adelphia.net
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 12:34 PM
Subject: [CR]'58 Paramount Parts



> I have a Paramount that Richard Schwinn thinks dates from 1958 or so -
> serial # probably 915 (it's hard to read). This bike was found in the back
> of a shop and is in new condition. It was probably never sold and possibly
> little ridden but it appears that over the years some parts were removed and
> replaced with more modern components. It does still have some 50's
> Campagnolo Gran Sport parts ('open-C' high flange hubs, derailleurs,
> shifters) and other neat older Schwinn bits but the crankset, seat, pedals
> and brakeset all seem wrong. I've heard differing opinions on what might be
> right but would like to put this question to other list members. If anyone
> has or is a source for the missing parts, please let me know. I've posted a
> couple of photos of the bike at
> http://users.adelphia.net/~gchottiner/59Paramount/index.html
>
> Parts that concern me:
>
> 1. Cranks look like Stronglight 99. I've heard from various sources that it
> should have either Stronglight 3-pin steel, early Campy 151 mm, special
> Paramount cranks or TA Touriste - and that the first three in appropriate
> condition would cost me more than I paid for the bike.
>
> 2. Pedals - it came with unlabeled very cheap pedals, with reflectors. A
> 1961 catalog that is the earliest I've found says Paramounts came with some
> version of Lyotard pedals (with Christophe toe clips and Lapize straps) or
> an upgrade to the original Campy Gran Sport pedals.
>
> 3. Brakeset - Weinmann 605, probably installed because the black plastic
> parts looked good with the black paint. What should I try to get - early
> Weinmann 999 brakes?
>
> 4. Saddle - has anyone heard of Perache? It's made, in France, of black
> suede over plastic. A Brooks Competition Standard B17 seems about right.
>
> Advice is appreciated and donations of parts will be gladly accepted. You
> can contact me off list at gsc2@po.cwru.edu <mailto:gsc2@po.cwru.ed> .
> Offers of parts at market prices will be weighed against my checkbook - and
> the checkbook is on a winning streak.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary Chottiner
> Northeast Ohio