Re: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs


Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer

From: "goodrichbikes" <goodrichbikes@netzero.net>
To: <CyclArtist@Cox.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <001301c35682$091b57f0$c1c96f44@HOME>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:57:00 -0500


> Perhaps Bi-laminate is not the correct term. The bottom bracket shell
> is clearly not a casting or pressed lug. It is obviously made of five
> separate pieces of tubing that have been filet brazed together. If not
> bi-laminate, what do you call that?

Hypothetically, if the pieces of tubing were brass brazed together and then the whole joint was silver brazed, wouldn't it be a tri-laminate? Seriously though, bi-laminate sounds mostly like a marketing term. I can't imagine any framebuilder in this country using that term. I think they'd say the lugs were hand made. Regardless of the semantics, making your own BB shell would be a great deal of work even if it was laminated.

Curt Goodrich
Minneapolis, MN


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cunningham"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:04 AM
Subject: RE: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs



> Hilary,
>
> Perhaps Bi-laminate is not the correct term. The bottom bracket shell
> is clearly not a casting or pressed lug. It is obviously made of five
> separate pieces of tubing that have been filet brazed together. If not
> bi-laminate, what do you call that?
>
> So, the seat stay attachment does not fit with the 1951 catalog.
> Catalogs are often incomplete and do not take specials into account.
> Besides, the estate says the frame was purchased in 1952.
>
> The Continental lugs look like this:
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British/claud_butler_conti_lugs.htm
> I have two other frames in hand with this pattern. The frame on Ebay has
> lugs of an entirely different pattern.
> http://www.cyclart.com/photos/Inventory/FRV-7353.jpg
>
> The frame currently on Ebay IS lugged except the BB as per amended
> listing description. With no evidence to the contrary, I'm still
> calling the bottom bracket assembly bi-laminate.
>
> The Continental frames in my possession DO clearly have the filet at all
> tube intersections. Although I can't prove it without cutting them up,
> it seems they may be entirely bi-laminate.
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> Jim Cunningham
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Hilary
> Stone
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:28 PM
> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com; otterwazoo@yahoo.com;
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs
>
> This frame is not bi-laminated - it is lugged - the lugs do not appear
> in
> the 1951 catalogue but are virtually identical to the 'Continental' lugs
> featured in the 1949 catalogue. The rear ends are the correct type for a
> C-B
> path model until 1953 when they became reinforced. The 1949 catalogue
> describes it as the 'World Championship Path model no 24:'. The seatstay
> top
> attachment also does not fit in with the 1951 date - the catalogue is
> adamant that the wrapped over seatstay attachment is the only type used
> on
> the path models. I do not have a 1950 catalogue, I am not sure one was
> ever
> produced - though the '51 cat is very clear about the wrapped over
> seatstay
> tops being first introduced on the path models and introduced prior to
> '51.
>
> Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
>
> > In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:09:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > otterwazoo@yahoo.com writes:
> >
> > <<
> > Claud Butler 54cm 1952 PathRacer NOS
> >
> > Item number: 2185740994 >>
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2185740994
> >
> > I guess I still don't understand what bi-laminate lugs are because
> these look
> > like normal lugs (albeit way cool semi-fancy normal!) I thought
> bi-laminate
> > meant kind of "one lug on top of another.."
> > Can someone instruct me, using this frame as an example, what
> bi-laminate is?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Dale Brown
> > Greensboro, North Carolina