Re: [CR]Brooks B-17 question

(Example: Framebuilders:Tony Beek)

From: "Raoul Delmare" <>
To: <>, <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks B-17 question
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:05:52 -0600
cc: "Bill L. at Wallbike" <>

Genuine Brooks Leather Saddles

The Brooks B.17 , being the subject of much custom modification ( "butchering" - perhaps not in a negative sense ) , was the basis for the Brooks Professional .

I'd always suspected that this was true . Recently , I learned the facts , through a wonderful resource called the , "Classic Rendezvous Mailing List" ! But now I can't remember the first year for the retail sale of the Brooks Professional . Was it 1962 ?

I personally remember the invention of the Brooks Team Professional , with the extra large , hand-hammered , rivets . It appeared on the Raleigh Team Professional ( which explains the name ) . I could easily be wrong about this , but as I recall , the Raleigh Team Professional was the first production bicycle from a large manufacturer to feature the new Campagnolo Super Record Group . Which is why the pictures in the catalog show prototype parts that Campagnolo never actually put into full production . So , the date of the release of the Raleigh Team Professional , and the Campagnolo Super Record Group , and the Brooks Team Professional Saddle , are all just almost exactly the same date !?!?

This was all slightly before Reynolds 753 tubing . The Raleigh Team Professional was initially offered only in Reynolds 531 tubing .

And for Genuine Brooks Leather Saddles , the final piece of the puzzle came in when they began to offer factory "Pre-Softened" saddles .

Many folks say that the actual origin of those large hand-hammered rivets , was from back in the days when there were leather saddle customizers ( "saddle butchers" - not in a negative sense ) . These were the people who took a Brooks B.17 , and reshaped into something just about like what would be called the Brooks Professional . They removed the leather , reshaped the steel frame , reshaped the leather , and gave the leather various softening treatments . To re-install the original leather cover , after it had been softened and reshaped , they had to use larger than stock rivets . During the removal , and customizing , the original holes in the original leather had gotten larger ( and softer ) .

So , today , when you buy a Brooks Team Professional ( large , hand-hammered rivets ) with the optional Pre-Softening , you are buying the factory version of a fully customized leather saddle .

Now then , would someone please explain to me , the relationship of the Brooks B.15 Saddle , with all of that stuff I wrote , up above ?!?!

( And Mr. Bill Laine , of Wallingford Bicycle Parts , if you're not a member of the C. R. List , you should be ! )

: - )

Raoul Delmare
Marysville Kansas

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 12:24 AM
Subject: [CR]Brooks B-17 question

> Hello-
> I am not very familiar with Brooks saddles. I received a B-17 on an old rust
> bucket cleverly disguised as a 1960s Bianchi. It came with a B-17 in good
> shape. In fact thats the best condition part it has. What is the relationship
> between this saddle and a Brooks Pro? cheers,
> Dave Anderson
> Cut Bank MT