Re: [CR]unknown Cinelli headtube logo, LONG REPLY....and response


Example: Framebuilding

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: dave martinez <dmart84815@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]unknown Cinelli headtube logo, LONG REPLY....and response
To: Bikerdaver@aol.com
In-Reply-To: <97.3f8465fb.2cc462b7@aol.com>
cc: CR List <ClassicRendezvous@bikelist.org>

Hello Dave, Yes I do agree with you that there are some fascinating variations of bikes that were spec'd out and just waiting to be discovered. I also believe that Cinelli would build variations on a theme. Example: there was a all original 50s vintage Cinelli that made an appearance at bike show in Boston (?) afew years back. This bike came from the Cinelli shop with cantilevers and braze on racks!! The original owner spec'd it out as such. Most recently there was a 50s Cinelli mod B on ebay with fenders, chainguard (with a Cinelli decal on it) and braze-on brake cable stops. I also regrett not bidding on a pink ladies 50s Riviera frame on German ebay! What aroused my suspions on these Singapore Cinellis is that they would not accept the front or rear wheels--the drop outs where that badly misaligned and this was on all three frames that this guy was selling. Short of an governor Arnold manuever, the wheels would not fit. As I said in the previous post, I took pics of the indenical frame that was for sale at Velo Sport and sent them to Spence Wolfe, who had begun importing Cinellis in the early 50s. He responded by indicating that they were not Cinellis. It seemed reasonable to me that the badge was wrong, the stay attachment was poorly executed, none of the wheels fit any of the frames and a guy that had a close association with Mr. Cinelli since the early 50s says that they're not Cinellis. That was enough evidence for me. You know I could be wrong...perhaps they were built for the Singapore National Team. Lets not take it too seriously, Dave Martinez Fremont Ca Bikerdaver@aol.com wrote: Pardon my neophyte ramblings, but what is all this talk about fake Cinellis? I am no Cinelli expert, but using Colnago, Schwinn, or Bianchis as examples, there were tens of different variations in "established" models over the years. In fact, some claim that it was the slight variations that made Colnago collecting so darn fun and interesting. Are we to assume that Cinelli never had these types of variations as well, and if there is something different, they must be Fakes? Heck, I have seen variation in same model bikes that were produced for the European market, US market, So.Am. market and even differences for the Canadian market. Differences in decals, fork and stay profiles, braze-ons, paint schemes and even lugs. What I hear the "experts" on this list saying, is that they are 100% sure that Cinelli NEVER was prone to those variations. Unless, you have a hand-written note from Cino himself stating as such, those "truths" appear nothing more than mere speculations. Ah yes, I can hear it now, "well I know I have a real Cinelli and the other one is a fake, and there is nothing that the hayseed from Montana knows about Cinellis anyway". Whatever. All I am saying is there are plenty of collecters out there--even on this list--that desire a particular bike Because Of Its Difference. Does that apply to all bikes Except Cinellis? Based purely on a statistics, I would say that at least one of these "truths" is wrong. Cheers and Peace, Dave Anderson Cut Bank MT

In a message dated 10/19/2003 9:22:26 AM PST, dmart84815@yahoo.com writes:
> Hello Steven,
> I have seen frames decaled as a Cinelli Mod B with this badge. One such
> frame decaled and badged as a Cinelli B was for sale in Velo Sport back in the
> mid 80s, I was able to take some pics of it. I believe the folks at VS. truely
> believed the frame was a Cinelli Mod B.
> A number of these frames made it to the Bay Area, they were brought in by a
> fellow visiting Singapore (back in the mid 80s). I found out about these
> frames from a ad in the misc-garage sale section of the San Jose Mercury News. He
> listed it as, Items from Singapore and Cinelli bicycle frames... When I got
> to his house he had about 3 frames left. They were painted Cinelli silver
> with candy red bands on the seattube and a candy red head tube. The headtube
> lugs were chrome as well as the semi-sloping crown and the forkends and part of
> the stays. The lugs looked to be Cinelli, the seatstay attachement was ugly
> and kinda crude with the seatstay caps flattend against the seatlug. It wasnt
> the classic fastback,or early 50s style with the seatpost clamp. The frames
> had the vintage Cinelli downtube, crest, and Mod B decals, this combination
> made the frames really quite attractive. They did have that unusual badge. At
> the time, I was excited, yet supicous. Also, I thought that Cinelli Bs only
> came with flat crowns, yet these had semi sloping crowns (I have since seen
> at least two authentic Cineli Bs with semi sloping crowns-the same crown
> thats used on the Riviera). I became convinced that these frames were frauds when
> I tried to fit wheels in both the front and rear ends, and nothing short of
> brutal strenght would allow the wheels to be fitted. We walked away from that
> "Deal". But before we did, the seller showed us "his" bike--- a real Cinelli
> Mod B with a flat crown, brass badge and the cinell seat cluster...... Hey
> buddy, want a Rolex? Cheap!
> Dave Martinez
> (I'm no Cinelli expert, but I get paid to drive a celeste truck)
> Fremont Ca.
> ps. I sent the pics of the cinelli to Spence Wolfe (when he worked at
> Winning Wheels in Pacific Grove), and he said that it wasnt a cinelli.
>
> TheMaaslands@comcast.net wrote:
> There is a Cinelli headtube badge for sale on ebay. Check it out at:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3632365527
>
> Can anybody tell me where thihs fits in era-wise. I am wondering if it is
> perhaps a repro. Any comments?
> --
> Steven Maasland
> Moorestown, NJ