Re: [CR] For Sale Rules.....fair play = fixed prices

(Example: Framebuilding:Norris Lockley)

From: "Steve Neago" <questor@cinci.rr.com>
To: "Daniel Artley" <dartley@co.ba.md.us>
References: <sf968724.055@co.ba.md.us>
Subject: Re: [CR] For Sale Rules.....fair play = fixed prices
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:09:55 -0400
cc: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
cc: classicrendezvous

I agree/disagree with Dan on 2 points:

I agree that viewing classic frames, lugs, and parts is very interesting and I welcome these pics and websites when they are for purely information use. Any seller who lists on the CR should clearly state a fixed price or else the website they refer to should be for CR information only - no items listed for sale and no auction mentioned.

However, I disagree that the CR be used to advertise an off list auction for classic bikes where there are no rules or stipulations on bidding. Ebay clearly lists their rules and regulations that they adhere to which seems to be why ebay listings are allowed in part on the CR, but what about individual sellers? To use the CR for listing off line auctions may imply the CR sanctions these by unknown people with unknown merchandise in unknown condition and unverified prices. It only takes one CR member to get burned by an offsite auction listed on the CR forum and the reputation of the CR for fair and unbiased discussion will suffer.

I agree with Dale that all prices for items mentioned on the CR should be fixed and listed in advance. At least on ebay you can view what the current price is and who is the current high bidder. Offline auctions most often do not allow this and may be prone to seller-initiated abuse. Let me give two examples that Dale addressed...

I had a discussion about this with a CR member 2 months ago who was fishing for a high price on Colbalto parts they advertised on the CR and would never tell me the price so I would purchase the items. They first said that they would hold the parts until I returned from vacation and later said they later sold them to another person for the highest price. The seller ignored the fact I was the first to respond to what I thought was a fixed price sale. This is one example among several that abused the CR forum for selling without a fixed price.

Another CR member advertised a pair of duplicate 531 vintage frames and said that another CR member would likely want these, but the seller "had not set a price" on the frames at that time and welcomed offers. This was another example of a seller who tried to conduct an off list auction using the CR and violate the rules. I say the rules as they currently are should stand without being altered.

Regards, Steve Neago
Cincinnati, OH


----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Artley
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CR] For Sale Rules.....And the bikes we might not get to see



> I certainly try not to flaunt any of the CR list rules, but I admit that
> I have enjoyed being able to have a look at some of these earlier CR
> timeline bicycles. For a while, the list appeared to be mired? in the
> mid to late '60's and '70's, when I started to ride 10 speeds and amass
> my spare parts bins. I have been developing an interest in bicycles
> much earlier than that as well as a fascination with fixed and
> internally geared hubs, and the list has been seeing more and more
> information and photos regarding the history and mechanics of the sport.
> It seems that every time I see a nice example of an older bike, I can
> appreciate things that I hadn't earlier. Indeed this last batch of
> bikes we're arguing about rules with, were shown about a month or more
> ago, yet I'm seeing them with 'new' eyes this time.
>
> I would argue that we might be steered to at least seeing these
> beautiful bikes even if there is a non CR approved auction going on,
> with the stipulation that any part of the auction be held off list. If
> for no other reason I get to amass a bit better collection of bike

> porn.

>

> Dan Artley

> Parkton, MD