Hi all, thanx Paul, I did forget to mention that really. I just use the handcleaner at work with warm water, comes up a treat, then I use some degreaser if the part, like a hub with races in it, helps to stop rust on them, then followed by another solvent, one of the slight benifits of doing this at work in my own time......wayne davidson, sun still shinning in Invers NZ.......