[CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 12, Issue 101

(Example: Bike Shops:R.E.W. Reynolds)

From: "Michael Duric" <mike.duric@sympatico.ca>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <CATFOODYH2FDaQN992800003732@catfood.nt.phred.org>
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:48:42 -0500
Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 12, Issue 101

Amen


----- Original Message -----
From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 12, Issue 101



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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.) (Todd Kuzma)
> 2. Re: Brooks saddles
> 3. Re: Brooks saddles (John Pergolizzi)
> 4. Re: Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.) (Wesley Oishi)
> 5. Re: Brooks saddles (John Pergolizzi)
> 6. Re: Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.) (John Pergolizzi)
> 7. WTT WTB Italian bike parts. (Wayne Davidson)
> 8. Re: Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.) (Joe Bender-Zanoni)
> 9. Re: Old vs New (flying_scot)
> 10. Re: Old vs New (flying_scot)
> 11. Re: Off topic posts & new steps to curb same......
> 12. Re: Old vs New (P.C. Kohler)
> 13. Re: Re: Off topic posts & new ..Correction..
> 14. Re: Brooks saddles
> 15. Re: Brooks saddles (P.C. Kohler)
> 16. Now: Sturmey-Archer Was: Old vs New (Chuck Schmidt)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:03:33 -0600
> From: Todd Kuzma <tullio@TheRamp.net>
> To: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.)
> Message-ID: <BC1341B5.4EF44%tullio@TheRamp.net>
> In-Reply-To: <001001c3ccb7$a69a08e0$719afea9@chasds>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> Message: 1
>
> on 12/27/03 2:26 PM, C. Andrews at chasds@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>
> > I just remove the old tire, check the old glue. If it's
> > still pliable, I run a new bead of glue over the old, let
> > set for about 1/2 hour, or until barely tacky, then lay on
> > the new tire. Let dry overnight. Go ride.
> >
> > I've also encountered sew-ups that were glued on rims so
> > thoroughly they could not be removed without the aid of a
> > tire-iron, or some other lever. This seems absurd to me.
>
> My method is for a new, clean rim and new tire. If the rim has been
> previously glued, I don't find the need for more than one coat if I am using
> the same brand of glue as originally used. I have also installed pre-glued
> spares without any additional glue and found that they cured just fine.
>
> However, I have also glued tires for a national level racer in our area who
> was extremely concerned about rolling tires after having done just that in a
> crit (before I started working on her bike). I wanted to be sure that it
> would be difficult to roll a tire that I had glued.
>
> Many shops will not glue tires any longer since 1) most don't know how; 2)
> it takes so damn long; and 3) they don't want the liability for an
> improperly glued tire causing an accident. Whenever I pull off a poorly
> glued tire, I think about whether that tire could have caused an accident.
>
> So, yes, my tires take a bit more effort to get off of the rim, but, to me,
> the safety margin is worth it. Sometimes I consider using a bit less glue
> on my own tires to make tire changes easier, but I haven't done so yet.
> I've rolled a clincher tire off the front before, and I was on the ground
> before I knew what was happening. That hurt! Maybe it's that memory which
> keeps me from taking it easy on the glue.
>
> Todd Kuzma
> Heron Bicycles
> Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
> LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
> http://www.heronbicycles.com
> http://www.tullios.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:08:57 EST
> From: NortonMarg@aol.com
> To: vintagespoke@earthlink.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
> Message-ID: <189.231d3bba.2d1f40d9@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Message: 2
>
> In a message dated 12/27/03 7:30:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> vintagespoke@earthlink.net writes:
>
> > Question about Brooks saddles - I have a B17 Champion Narrow, with chrome
> > rails, marked 79 and made of leather that's twice as thick as all other
> > Brook saddles I have seen in the past. It appears to have had little to no use
> > and is hard as a rock. The leather is in good shape (no cracking), but it
> > seams impossible to make any softer. I 've tried Brooks Proofide several times
> > but have had little results. Any advice at making this saddle/leather
> > softer. Home remedies?
> >
>
> You have to do a little judicious tapping with a hammer to stretch the
> leather a bit.
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda. CA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:35:54 -0500
> From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <vintagespoke@earthlink.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
> Message-ID: <001a01c3ccc1$68f5a7b0$d79e4b0c@D1KBTP11>
> References: <410-22003100198018210@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
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> Message: 3
>
> Richard,
> As I have advised before: http://www.leatherique.com
> As recomended by The Ferrari Club of America. "Rejuvenator Oil. It works.
> Used by me on my 67' Ferrari and Brooks that are old and too hard. Use
> sparingly.
> enjoy,
> John T.Pergolizzi
> N.Y.C., New York
> But not for long.
>
> Snip:
> "but it seams impossible to make any softer. I 've tried Brooks Proofide
> several times but have had little results. Any advice at making this
> saddle/leather softer." >
> >
> > Richard Robinson
> > Jacksonville NC
> > vintagespoke@earthlink.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:41:27 -0800 (PST)
> From: Wesley Oishi <woishi@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Todd Kuzma <tullio@TheRamp.net>,
> "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.)
> Message-ID: <20031227214127.19803.qmail@web80207.mail.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <BC1341B5.4EF44%tullio@TheRamp.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
> Back in the day when everyone raced on tubulars, we
> had a pre-race ritual called the "tech inspection".
> Some heavily gloved individual would look over each
> bike before the race and try to roll the tire off of
> your rim. Someone suggested that this practiced was
> halted, due to liability concerns. Riders were
> expected to take care of their own equipement (what a
> concept!).
>
> Rolling a tubular rarely occurs if the tire is
> properly glued, maintained and frequently checked. I
> believe the USCF does not consider a rolled tubular a
> "mechanical", and does not allow a free lap in crits,
> if you do roll your tire.
>
> I've never seen or experienced the hot, "melting glue"
> rolled tubular though. Anyone?
>
> Wes Oishi
> from Saluda SC but back to SoCal, soon!!!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:43:20 -0500
> From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <NortonMarg@aol.com>, <vintagespoke@earthlink.net>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
> Message-ID: <004901c3ccc2$72ad7d40$d79e4b0c@D1KBTP11>
> References: <189.231d3bba.2d1f40d9@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
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>
>
> Steve and Richard,
> Oil first, then tap w/ ball of ball peen hammer. Or you WILL crack her.
> Start w/ light taps and as she "breaks in" increase force. Bt never wail on
> her. A good half hour will do wonders. Double time if she is still
> recalcitrant.
> Pergolizzi
> N.Y.,N,Y. again
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <NortonMarg@aol.com>
> To: <vintagespoke@earthlink.net>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
>
>
> > In a message dated 12/27/03 7:30:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > vintagespoke@earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > > Question about Brooks saddles - I have a B17 Champion Narrow, with
> chrome
> > > rails, marked 79 and made of leather that's twice as thick as all other
> > > Brook saddles I have seen in the past. It appears to have had little
> to no use
> > > and is hard as a rock. The leather is in good shape (no cracking), but
> it
> > > seams impossible to make any softer. I 've tried Brooks Proofide
> several times
> > > but have had little results. Any advice at making this saddle/leather
> > > softer. Home remedies?
> > >
> >
> > You have to do a little judicious tapping with a hammer to stretch the
> > leather a bit.
> > Stevan Thomas
> > Alameda. CA
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:14:38 -0500
> From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.)
> Message-ID: <005501c3ccc6$d25bac40$d79e4b0c@D1KBTP11>
> References: <001001c3ccb7$a69a08e0$719afea9@chasds>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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> Message: 6
>
> Andrew,
> >" Tubasti is my glue of choice...I've seen Tubasti stay
> > pliable for over a decade, "
> Yea, its good stuff.
>
> > "New rims might get one thin coat of glue, to dry overnight,
> > but sometimes not even that."
> Sorry, Andrew, not enough IMHO. But I'm a trackie. New rims two coats.
> The a third and attach tire. Will not roll. Period.
>
> >"...I've even put used spares on rims with old glue"
> Yes , this is true of Tubasti, but not Clement (the red stuff; gets dry and
> brittle) or 3M tack adhesive( gorilla snot). The new Tubasti dissolves some
> of the old.
>
> >" I've also encountered sew-ups that were glued on rims so thoroughly they
> could not be removed without the aid of > atire-iron, or some other lever.
> This seems absurd to me."
>
> That's the way w/ track tandems. And real good for sprint bikes too.
> Security at 60 MPH. Been there , done that.
>
> And throw all that Velox etc. tape shit in the trash, just learn how to do
> it right. But only if ya wanna join
> "The Club".
> ciao,
> John T.Pergolizzi
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 03 10:11:52 +1300
> From: Wayne Davidson <wayne.collect@xtra.co.nz>
> To: "CR BIKE LIST" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]WTT WTB Italian bike parts.
> Message-ID: <20031227210927.MMTP12184.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[219.88.1.185]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> Hi all, I have the following for wants/trades list, email direct if able
> to help.....regards wayne davidson Invercargill NZ.
> wayne.collect@xtra.co.nz
>
> >>BOOK/MAGS/BROCHURES ETC.
> Anything on Galli and Rigi, photocopies OK.
> Healing 12 speed brochure
> Morrison Monarch brochure
>
> >>BRAKE PARTS.
> Campagnolo NR/SR adjusting screw #2009 2 of NOS only please.
> Campagnolo NR/SR adjusting nut #2007 NOS only please.
> Campagnolo NR/SR Inner friction washer #2015/1 2 of NOS only please.
> Campagnolo NR/SR cable clamp washer #2004 1 NOS only please.
> Camapgnolo NR/SR cable clamp #2013.
>
> >>BRAKE LEVER PARTS.
> Galli hoods NOS pr only please.
> Campagnolo Power grade white hood NOS please.
>
> >>CRANKARM LH ONLY.
> Galli Criterium strada 170mm #03020002. NOS ONLY PLEASE.
> 2 Galli alloy dust covers #03020008.
>
> >>CRANKSET.
> Galli Super Criterium strada 170mm.
>
> >>FREEWHEEL REMOVER.
> Regina freewheel remover finespline.
>
> >>FRONT DERAILEUR.
> Gian Roberts to suit a RIGI. Broken and parts OK.
>
> >>REAR DERAILEUR PARTS.
> 2 Campagnolo Athena type light grey pulley inner steel bushs NOS.
> Campagnolo NR inner cage plate #815/A.
> Campagnolo Nuovo gran sport spring cage cover #3508.
> Campagnolo NR Inner arm #807/A NOS only please.
> Campagnolo SR inner arm #7117019 NOS only please.
> Campagnolo SR return spring late model NOS only please.
>
> >>HANDLEBAR.
> 3ttt Record competizione? from the 80's. The bigger the better, size
> wise. These are the bars that have the flattened/oval section on the top.
>
> >>HEADSET.
> Galli taper roller bearing, all alloy road eng/italian threaded.
> Will take parts as well.
>
> >>HUBS.
> Campagnolo record 28 hole SF front hub or shell.
>
> >>QUICK RELEASE.
> Campagnolo curved lever rear, either modern or older nutted, real nice
> condition preferred.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:49:43 -0500
> From: Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net>
> To: John Pergolizzi <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>,
> "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.)
> Message-ID: <003001c3cccb$b811af60$6400a8c0@jfbender>
> References: <001001c3ccb7$a69a08e0$719afea9@chasds>
> <005501c3ccc6$d25bac40$d79e4b0c@D1KBTP11>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
> Tire glue softens at high temperatures. I did a tech inspect once for a
> triathalon on a 95 degree day (day before race) and peeled off tires all day
> long. Also consider braking on long downhills. Not all glues are equal in
> this respect also.
>
> Also those of us with many bikes (raise your hands) are often guilty of
> riding years old tubualrs with years old glue. This years resolution: a tech
> inspect with fresh glue and tires where needed. I'll stop going for the
> record on that beloved Continental, retubed by Tirealert,. 9000 miles (or
> whatever) is enough!
>
> Joe Bender-Zanoni
> Great Notch NJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Gluing tires (was re: velox rim tape etc.)
>
>
> > Andrew,
> > >" Tubasti is my glue of choice...I've seen Tubasti stay
> > > pliable for over a decade, "
> > Yea, its good stuff.
> >
> > > "New rims might get one thin coat of glue, to dry overnight,
> > > but sometimes not even that."
> > Sorry, Andrew, not enough IMHO. But I'm a trackie. New rims two coats.
> > The a third and attach tire. Will not roll. Period.
> >
> > >"...I've even put used spares on rims with old glue"
> > Yes , this is true of Tubasti, but not Clement (the red stuff; gets dry
> and
> > brittle) or 3M tack adhesive( gorilla snot). The new Tubasti dissolves
> some
> > of the old.
> >
> > >" I've also encountered sew-ups that were glued on rims so thoroughly
> they
> > could not be removed without the aid of > atire-iron, or some other lever.
> > This seems absurd to me."
> >
> > That's the way w/ track tandems. And real good for sprint bikes too.
> > Security at 60 MPH. Been there , done that.
> >
> > And throw all that Velox etc. tape shit in the trash, just learn how to do
> > it right. But only if ya wanna join
> > "The Club".
> > ciao,
> > John T.Pergolizzi
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:34:16 -0000
> From: "flying_scot" <flying_scot@btopenworld.com>
> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Old vs New
> Message-ID: <00a001c3ccd6$cc3fb260$44ce7ad5@oemcomputer>
> References: <a0521062fbc1381625786@[66.167.136.241]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Message: 9
>
> Jan wrote ;
>
> > Beyond derailleurs, I disagree with Bob that modern systems provide
> > an advantage over old ones. Sure, a shift may take a split-second
> > longer with a non-ramped freewheel, but in practice, that isn't a
> > concern. Maybe in a time trial, where you could shave 2 seconds over
> > 100 km - even that not enough to determine the outcome.
>
> By all means Jan, disagree if you must, but I wasn't comparing derailleur
> systems, as what I actually wrote and was speaking about was ;
>
> ----
> I'm not questioning your ability, but it is hard to believe you could beat a
> modern Shimano (and others) indexed systems that have the ability to go up
> down the block in about as much time as an S-A takes to shift from L to N...
> Not a reflection on you, just quite a few decades of progress. Certainly in
> comparison with the "vague" action of the pre & immediate post-war
> derailleur systems the S-A might be "Instantaneous", but against a modern 10
> or less indexed ? or better still the pinnacle of indexing, the 8-speed
> Dura-Ace mmm... I have my doubts.
> ----
>
> The comparison I was making was between S-A hubs and modern derailleur gear
> systems particularly in a head-to-head S-A vs Technowonder 30-speed glue and
> plastic wundabike. And I guess you've not done too many time trials, as less
> than a 2 second advantage over any distance can mean the difference between
> winning and losing a major tour, let alone taking the fastest time at a club
> time trial. Any little advantage helps no matter how seemingly
> "insignificant".
>
> Bob Reid
> Stonehaven
> Scotland
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:08:24 -0000
> From: "flying_scot" <flying_scot@btopenworld.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Old vs New
> Message-ID: <00a101c3ccd6$cd5d0940$44ce7ad5@oemcomputer>
> References:
> <c4.2068f96.2d1e05bd@aol.com><009701c3cc00$f7eee240$22e0fea9@man><008301c3cc 10$3c6b16a0$f40d8751@oemcomputer><00e501c3cc34$2991e9e0$22e0fea9@man><001201 c3cc5b$6896a820$d4d07ad5@oemcomputer>
> <004501c3cc8f$8b11e020$22e0fea9@man>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> Peter Wrote ;
>
> > I knew you'd pick Scotland as the venue.... I'll take any hill you throw
> at
> > me, but wind... especially North of Scotland wind.... urrgghhh. Does this
> > mean that you Scots eschewed Sturmey-Archer's products well in advance of
> > those foreigners living in say Lincolnshire? I suspect you did. Then again
> > it's not exactly flat around Nottingham... were Cyclo-Benelux gears
> > reprobate in the staff cycle shed at the S-A works?
> >
> Yep, that's us hard Scot's - Biting winds, pissing down with freezing
> rain... so bad, the Romans built a wall keeping the English safe from us,
> then gave up and returned to Rome and don't we love it ! - emm no not
> really, but remember I'm Scot's and unless anyone's going to pay for my
> ticket, the chances of racing in Washington are about as slim as me visiting
> my cousin whose lived and worked there for the past 18 years. Bruce and I
> could get free accommodation, but we'd have to sell his prize 1930s Elrick,
> my 1937 Flying Scot (and/or his kids and my mother-in-law) to afford the air
> fare... As far as south of the border is concerned in Ye Olde England,
> you'll have to ask Mick Butler to chime in here, about all those English
> hardmen....You know the ones that are good time trialists but show them a
> hill....and well enough said. (I'm sure Tom Simpson must have had a granny
> living in Scotland).
>
> Slightly more on topic. Derailleurs first came to the Scottish club scene
> circa 1926/27 hot from the lands of our Auld Alliance partners. Racing with
> Sturmey's seem to have been popular in Scotland until about 1937ish. Post
> war "racing" clubmen used derailleurs emulating their French and Italian
> hero's (Anything Italian was particularly in-vogue in post-war Scotland
> through the 40s and 50s perhaps due in some small part to our large ex-pat
> Italian community) Sturmey's were the reserve of the CTC club tourist folk
> and the pre-war die-hard guys who could see no better. By the time I got my
> first 27" wheeled "racing" machine circa 1968, sturmey's were the reserve of
> butcher boy's, grannny's shopper, eupemistically entitled Raleigh "Sports
> Tourist" lightweights, and the horror of horrors, the Raleigh Chopper.
>
> Bob Reid
> Stonehaven
> Scotland (slightly warmer here than in Iceland)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:16:17 EST
> From: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Re: Off topic posts & new steps to curb same......
> Message-ID: <57.262b6f70.2d1f7ad1@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> Message: 11
>
> Dear members:
>
> I think I need to make it clear to all members that off topic posts are
> simply not allowed on this list.
>
> I admit that there are degrees of being OT.. Borderline references, for
> instance, to C-Record are not as onerous to me as chatting about current events or
> new model bikes... But nonetheless, a growing number of you think that it's OK
> if you say "I know this is off topic, but (etc.)" and then blithely go ahead
> and blab away.
>
> You may well ask, why do we want to stay on topic? It is because the CR list
> is up to nearly 1000 members who joined and "listen in" to vintage bike stuff.
> They expect and are entitled to OT messages... only! The volume of mail is
> very high at times, so high it has caused more than a few members to quit. It is
> not fair to the vast majority who follow the game rules to be penalized by
> the unthinking or disregarding few.
>
> In the <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com./CR_list_rules.htm">CR list
> rules</A> the topic range is pretty clearly spelled out;
>
> "(The CR list covers)...the approximate period from the beginning of the
> Twentieth Century, up to 1983. A few contemporary, classically produced small
> workshop bikes are considered "on topic" here (ask!), but those welded, injection
> molded, or glued modern wonders belong in some other mail list, not this one!
> Ditto for mountain bikes & balloon tired bikes. Those items have merit, but
> they just do not belong here. "
>
> I would point out that word "ask"... Rather than send a message that is OT,
> or in question, I request that you ask first.
>
> So, what to do with those of you who are not willing to conform? I will
> decide case by case, but in blatant situations, I will remove members and place
> them in a 60 day "no list" status.
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, NC
> <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com./main.htm">ClassicRendezvous.com</A>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:20:45 -0500
> From: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Old vs New
> Message-ID: <00af01c3ccd8$70c27420$22e0fea9@man>
> References:
> <c4.2068f96.2d1e05bd@aol.com><009701c3cc00$f7eee240$22e0fea9@man><008301c3cc 10$3c6b16a0$f40d8751@oemcomputer><00e501c3cc34$2991e9e0$22e0fea9@man><001201 c3cc5b$6896a820$d4d07ad5@oemcomputer><004501c3cc8f$8b11e020$22e0fea9@man>
> <00a101c3ccd6$cd5d0940$44ce7ad5@oemcomputer>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 12
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flying_scot" <flying_scot@btopenworld.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 7:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Old vs New
> . Post
> > war "racing" clubmen used derailleurs emulating their French and Italian
> > hero's (Anything Italian was particularly in-vogue in post-war Scotland
> > through the 40s and 50s perhaps due in some small part to our large ex-pat
> > Italian community) Sturmey's were the reserve of the CTC club tourist folk
> > and the pre-war die-hard guys who could see no better. By the time I got
> my
> > first 27" wheeled "racing" machine circa 1968, sturmey's were the reserve
> of
> > butcher boy's, grannny's shopper, eupemistically entitled Raleigh "Sports
> > Tourist" lightweights, and the horror of horrors, the Raleigh Chopper.
>
> Oh dear. I feel SO inadequate with my collection of S-A hubbed machines!
> Mind, I almost converted earlier today after taking my '48 Clubman on her
> first trial run... a frustration of slipping or "missing" gears that almost
> had me doing an eBay search for Cyclo-Benelux! But she may have settled down
> as have I and hopefully she'll be proving the superiority of S-A engineering
> tomorrow. Real men ride single-gear "fixed and free" bikes anyway. Well
> that's what they tell me.
>
> Peter Kohler
> Washington DC USA
> (who hasn't ridden a derailleur bike since his Peugeot UE-8 c. 1976)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:24:39 EST
> From: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Off topic posts & new ..Correction..
> Message-ID: <30.4d04b26b.2d1f7cc7@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 13
>
> In a message dated 12/27/2003 7:17:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:
>
> << They expect and are entitled to OT messages... only! >>
>
> Oops.. You know I meant to write "....they expect ... On Topic messages, only"
> Sorry
> Dale
>
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina
> <A HREF="http://www.classicrendezvous.com./main.htm">ClassicRendezvous.com</A>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:54:51 EST
> From: NortonMarg@aol.com
> To: jtperry@worldnet.att.net, vintagespoke@earthlink.net,
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
> Message-ID: <18b.23e0513f.2d1f83db@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 14
>
> In a message dated 12/27/03 1:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jtperry@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> > Oil first, then tap w/ ball of ball peen hammer. Or you WILL crack her.
> > Start w/ light taps and as she "breaks in" increase force. But never wail
> > on
> > her. A good half hour will do wonders. Double time if she is still
> > recalcitrant.
> >
>
> Definitely never hammer on a dry saddle! Less than 3 minutes should do the
> trick, even under a minute is usually plenty. Cover with a towel or rag to keep
> from marking the leather. This also speeds the break in of plastic base
> saddles.
>
> I always used to do this in the back of the shop where the customers couldn't
> see!
> Stevan Thomas
> Alameda, CA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:22:24 -0500
> From: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
> Message-ID: <00bd01c3cce1$0d3fd1a0$22e0fea9@man>
> References: <18b.23e0513f.2d1f83db@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 15
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <NortonMarg@aol.com>
> To: <jtperry@worldnet.att.net>; <vintagespoke@earthlink.net>;
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 7:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks saddles
>
>
> > In a message dated 12/27/03 1:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > jtperry@worldnet.att.net writes:
> >
> > > Oil first, then tap w/ ball of ball peen hammer. Or you WILL crack her.
> > > Start w/ light taps and as she "breaks in" increase force. But never
> wail
> > > on
> > > her. A good half hour will do wonders. Double time if she is still
> > > recalcitrant.
>
> Wow. I must be doing something wrong. I've been riding on Brooks (and
> Wrights) saddles since I was 9 years old. I have never once found the need
> to pound, beat or otherwise torture them to be comfortable. I have never
> soaked them in neets foot oil, baked or boiled them. Almost never had to
> "tension" them.
>
> I guess I am of the old-fashioned sort who thinks a saddle is supposed to
> support not be a glove-leather upholstered armchair. Indeed the least
> comfortable Brooks I have ridden was one that was soaked, beat and or
> boiled. It's like riding on a dead eel.
>
> Regular use and sparing use of Proofhide is the ticket. But I do know what
> you mean by the occasional "thicker" leather on B-17Ns. I got one recently
> like that on eBay; it's brand new so maybe British bovines, having survived
> Mad Cow Disease, just have thicker hides now.
>
> Peter Kohler
> Washington DC USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:16:42 -0700
> From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]Now: Sturmey-Archer Was: Old vs New
> Message-ID: <3FEE2ECC.BC0DCB42@earthlink.net>
> References: <c4.2068f96.2d1e05bd@aol.com><009701c3cc00$f7eee240$22e0fea9@man><008301c3cc 10$3c6b16a0$f40d8751@oemcomputer><00e501c3cc34$2991e9e0$22e0fea9@man><001201 c3cc5b$6896a820$d4d07ad5@oemcomputer>
> <00a101c3ccd6$cd5d0940$44ce7ad5@oemcomputer>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net
> Message: 16
>
> Maybe S-A hubs are the reason why Sheldon says to never pedal out of the saddle?
>
> >From the FAQs (frequently asked questions) at:
> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ
>
> ========================================================================
> Subject: 8f.18 Sturmey-Archer 3-Speed Hubs
> From: Jobst Brandt <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org>
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:04:39 PST
>
> Sturmey-Archer hubs have been in service for many years (1887):
>
> http://www.sturmey-archer.com/p11.htm
>
> Yet they have had a design flaw from the beginning that escaped
> scrutiny through most of the popular life of the common 3-speed AW
> hub. This flaw has consistently been "swept under the rug" or laid at
> the feet of the mechanic so completely that few have questioned why it
> jumps into free wheeling when ridden forcefully in top gear. I think
> the symptom and cause should be explained to prevent injuries.
>
> Drive is transmitted from the sprocket through a four slot driver,
> through which a small movable cross (clutch) protrudes to transmit
> drive in, low, direct,and high gear positions.
>
> In low gear, the clutch is moved to the right to lift the (high gear)
> pawls, driving the ring gear directly so that the ring gear drives the
> planets with output going through the planet cage and its (low gear)
> pawls at 3/4 the input speed. With one pair of pawls raised and the
> other pair driving, the typical clicking sound of AW hubs is absent.
>
> In second gear, (direct drive), the clutch drives the hub body
> directly through the right hand pawls, making the planet carrier (low
> gear) pawls click as they lag behind.
>
> Top gear engages when the clutch is fully extended to the left against
> the planet cage, between the four protruding planet (pinion) pins, to
> drive the planets that turn the ring gear 4/3 the input speed. In
> this position, the low gear pawls in the planet cage click as they lag
> behind. It is the inverse of low gear and hence the reciprocal
> relationship between low 1/3 down and high 1/4 up with respect to
> direct drive on AW hubs.
>
> Because the pinion pins are free fit in the housing, they are slightly
> skewed to the hub axis due to canting within the clearance when loaded
> by the clutch, a "tilt" that has a disengaging bias to the driving
> clutch. However, because the axle bends slightly from chain tension,
> depth of engagement between clutch and pinion pins varies during
> rotation. These two effects can disengage the clutch and pins under
> high torque, dropping the mechanism into free wheeling forward. The
> result is that the rider, if standing, dives over the bars, with the
> bicycle following.
>
> This condition is apparent upon examining the clutch and pins that
> both show wear, slanting to enhance disengagement. However, replacing
> these parts does not resolve the condition. SA has always maintained
> that the shift cable was misadjusted, something that is easily
> disproven by disengaging the shift chain entirely. With the cable
> disconnected, the clutch is free to make perfect contact with the face
> of the planet cage, the best adjustment possible for top gear, and
> still disengagement occurs.
>
> This problem could have been resolved by putting a slight flare to the
> ends of the planet pins and a similar matching slant on the clutch
> faces, giving their engagement a preferential retaining force instead
> of the opposite. Most motorcycle gear boxes use such features,
> especially in older non-synchronized sliding gear boxes... the classic
> clunk of BMW boxes for instance.
>
> Similarly, the spring-less ratchet of the SW (Silent) hub was sensitive
> to lubricant viscosity and with anything more than 10W oil could
> freewheel forward, the pawls clinging to the ramps by oil viscosity
> while not engaging. This hub was discontinued after a short run
> probably because one could not place blame on user error.
> ========================================================================
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 12, Issue 101
> **************************************************